E9Th Third Pedal

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 12 Sep 2008 12:13 pm

I watched,today,for the first time,a tape of
Buddy Emmons at Newbury(Gerry Hogan's show in Egland)
It was around 1988.
Scotty was on stage with a sheet of questions which the audience had asked.Buddy gave some great answers and gave everyone an insight onto His playing,thinking etc.
In answer to one of the many questions He took the audience thru His set up on both necks, demonstrating the actual raise or lower on each pedal or lever.
He left out the three pedals of the E9 neck,I guess He was assuming We all know what they do.After being prompted by Scotty He did tell everyone what the changes were,I had to re run the tape a couple of times to be sure I was hearing right.
Buddy said "This is the third pedal,I do'nt use it"
There was no jokes added and He carried on with the show.
DID Y'ALL KNOW THAT?

Floored Me.

Billy

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 12 Sep 2008 12:38 pm

I've wondered this for years because you never hear typical B/C pedal phrases in anything he plays.

I would like to hear from the man himself on this.

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 12 Sep 2008 12:48 pm

Well I might as well come out of the cupboard too and say I have never found a good use for the 3rd. Pedal either, and have been thinking for some time of what other, more usefull change I might put there.

James.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 12 Sep 2008 1:05 pm

I seldom use the three pedal,I may be wrong But did'nt some of the West coast steelers[Bakersfield style] use the B and C pedals a lot? Sure some of you could clue us in on this,It sounded to me like they were.DYKBC.

Leon Campbell · Post by **Leon Campbell** » 12 Sep 2008 1:25 pm

Yes they did Mr. Mooney did & does. I use it quit abit. Mr John Hughey used it alot,Look at us starts with it, very pretty IMOA. Thanks, Leon

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 12 Sep 2008 2:06 pm

I use mine a lot? maybe I'm doing something wrong?I use it while playing strings 4 and 6 a lot of two part harmony thingies.

Tommy Young · Post by **Tommy Young** » 12 Sep 2008 3:13 pm

Seen Buddy playing got p.o. at it when tuning up,,, took the floor pedal rod to the third pedal off and left it off while he played the gig..this was back in the early 80's i think,, I asked him about it during a break he said it was broke--- no other comments did he make...after hearing and watching him play didn't think he needed it either..

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 12 Sep 2008 3:25 pm

Sounds to me as though Buddy uses it, though not in a "typical" way, in his very nice solo on Albert Lee's version of "Till I Can Gain Control Again", on the Heartbreak Hill album.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Sep 2008 4:21 pm

Most players use it, and a few don't.

Actually...I'd be quite happy if everyone (but me) did away with it.

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 12 Sep 2008 4:57 pm

Anyone ever heard of Lloyd Green?

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 12 Sep 2008 4:58 pm

I find it hard to believe after listening to E play for all these years that he does not use pedal 3. E would have put a different change on it. Then again.. maybe that's why Franklin gets all that session work.

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 12 Sep 2008 6:57 pm

I Use It Some It Give A Good sound Used In The Right Place In Some Songs. SONNY.

Carl Vilar · Post by **Carl Vilar** » 12 Sep 2008 7:19 pm

I use mine all the time but then again I'm playing Day setup

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 13 Sep 2008 2:21 am

Bo Borland wrote:I find it hard to believe after listening to E play for all these years that he does not use pedal 3.

Maybe he just doesn`t know it himself.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 13 Sep 2008 2:56 am

There's an old thread with some conversation between Mr. Emmons and PF, in which Buddy at one point says he's thinking about putting P1 at P3 and doing something different with P1.
Just like me.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 13 Sep 2008 7:43 am

Some people use the 3rd pedal a lot, some not at all. In fact some play with NO pedals. I've gone entire gigs and never touched it! But before you think about changing it out, make sure you check out what MOST steel players are doing with it. If you have no desire to play any of the stuff below then perhaps you could put the Franklin change on it!

E9th Pedal 3 Ideas

More Ideas

Greg

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 13 Sep 2008 8:24 am

I haven't had a standard 3rd pedal for over 25 years and don't miss it at all. On my old ShoBud I had a verticle knee lever which raised my 4th string to F# and on my current BMI I have an 8th floor pedal which raises the 4th string. I like raising the 4th string a whole tone without bringing the 5th along with it. For some of the 3rd pedal things you can just use the position where your E's are lowered and use your A pedal. You can get the same moves. The A pedal raising the 5th string gives you the same as a C pedal raising the 4th and letting off your E lower is the same as using the B pedal, it's just in a different fret and strings. On my steel I raise the 7th string F# to G# (Brumley Pedal) which I find more useful.......JH in Va.

Dave Magram · Post by **Dave Magram** » 13 Sep 2008 8:55 am

If you take a look at the excellent tablature that Greg Cutshaw refers to in his post above, there are several examples of Buddy Emmons using the "C" pedal. There are also other recorded examples with Ray Price and others of the Big E using the little "C". (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Besides the afore-mentioned Mr. Hughey and Mr. Green, Hal Rugg, Tom Brumley, and Weldon Myrick also used the "C" pedal extensively. One example is Hal's classic intro to Loretta Lynn's "Don't Come Home A'Drinking". So if you want to sound like any of those guys, you may want to keep the "C" pedal.

On the other hand, in trying to emulate one of Weldon's intros to an old Connie Smith song last year, I couldn't figure out how to jump from the BC pedals to AB pedals fast enough. I found that one way to emulate what Weldon did was to include the first string in a grip with the AB pedals to include that 6th tone. Don't know if that's how Weldon did it, but that might be one way to get around not having a "C" pedal.

-Dave

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 13 Sep 2008 9:05 am

I have never used the third pedal and I have looked diligently for it's purpose so it would not be wasted....but, alas, I never found it. All of it's uses are available at other positions.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 13 Sep 2008 9:06 am

Because "they" had it, I ordered my first ('69) Emmons P/P with A B and C. (I was playing a Fender 400 with 6 pedals at the time)

To me, it seemed unnatural in musical flow to have a C pedal. But I used it ocassionally. Others, as mentioned above, use it all the time. JH used it extensively; as does PF. And I applaud them.

When I decided to go universal 12 yrs ago, the C pedal HAD to go. This was because I wanted the equivalent C6 "5th" pedal next to the B pedal.

That was 11 yrs ago, and I have not missed the C pedal except in a miniscule number of cases. What I DO miss is the ability to do something that the C pedal can not do (unless ya use both feet). And that is, to raise the 4th string WITH A and/or B down.

So I decided to do what Ralph Mooney does. Have a pedal next to my volume pedal that only raises the 4th string to an F#. And then use my right foot to engage it as needed

I like that and use it. IF I had a 3rd knee, I would use it solely to raise that 4th string a whole tone. Because the change IS better when used with a volume pedal. I was not born with a 3rd knee (thankfully

), so I am satisfied with it this way.

After hearing Buddy Emmons, since he first came to Nashville as a 16 yr old kid, I prefer the way HE did it. He did not need it. There has to be a reason. And I can assure you, it is NOT because of session work or the lack thereof.

For IMO, NO player in history would have ever been a better session player than Buddy, IF he wanted that life. HE didn't. And he did not need the C pedal.

The unprecedented music that exuded from his amp was, and is, truly from heaven. Again and again, I repeat what the late Mac Atcheson (PSG player extroadanaire from Atlanta) said, "I would rather listen to (and watch) Buddy 'TUNE' his steel than to hear any other player 'PLAY' their steels."

Knowing that Buddy rarely used the C pedal, that is good enough for me. May Jesus bless him and bring him confort during his time of sorrow,

c.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 13 Sep 2008 9:52 am

I'm surprised there aren't more players that have A, B, & PF, or PF, A, B. Seriously.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Sep 2008 10:54 am

It's my least used change. In some songs I never use it, and in a few others I use it quite bit. I like the sound of it when I use it, but I can see how some people could get along without it. I learned to use it because it is there. It's part of the classic E9 setup, so I've stayed with it. If you can think of something more useful to put on the C pedal, why not? Sure, you wont be able to do the things you can do with it; but people who don't have whatever you put there wont be able to do those things. It's all in what you need.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 13 Sep 2008 10:58 am

But did'nt some of the West coast steelers[Bakersfield style] use the B and C pedals a lot?

This is one of the reasons why people love that "West-Coast" sound so much.

If you talk to a couple steelers that actually are playing over 30years and up they will refer to the 3th pedal as the "Money Pedal".

I am one of those players that does a whole lot with the 3th pedal.It blends in with the style that I am picking.

Ron

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 13 Sep 2008 11:09 am

Gene and Carl-I too ,almost never used the C pedal, but very rarely had to use it on , especially endings, to get that sound that was on certain recordings. But do not have it on my guitar now. As Carl does, I have the 4th String E to F# but on a Knee lever, but it would be faster with the right foot down on a pedal. I use that a lot with A and B down and in and out with the F#. Mostley for the pretty songs.

Carl-Good to see you posting.I know what you mean about your Uni, the B pedal next to C6 P 5 equivelent ,is very useful there....great post...al

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Sep 2008 11:27 am

A good "practice song" for the "C" pedal is Tom Brumley's Apple Jack. I play the song considerable faster than the player in this clip, but it'll give you an idea, anyway.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0MhDgrJGx5I

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