Which tuning would be best suited for no slants?

[Greg Gefell]

John - belive me, if I tried to play that most of my chords would be "accidental!"

I think I'm settling on an E13 type tuning while maintaining the e9 out of order strings up top. Kind of a cross over tuning. Seems to suit the music I make.

[Gary C. Dygert]

This thread has good points. Chris, is that tuning (hi to lo)E-B-G#-F#-E-D-B-G#/E? On a 6-string I'd try E-B-G#-F#-E-B. Sounds interesting.

[George Keoki Lake]

As far as I'm concerned, slants "make" the steel guitar what it is (vs) pedal guitar. In reality, there are no practical tunings for the steel whereby the slant is completely eliminated and "this is a good thing" as Martha Stewart might say were she to take up the steel.

As Ron wrote in his thread, Jerry Byrd was the master of slants both forward and reverse which made his music sound so beautiful. Long live the slants !

[Mike Ihde]

Sticking up for Leavitt Tuning, Bill Leavitt didn't invent it for the purpose of eliminating slants. That was a byproduct of the tuning. All he wanted to do was to play his favorite Jazz standards using 3, 4, and 5 note chords. The fact that he figured out a way to do it without having to slant the bar was a miracle if you ask me. But, even Bill used a slant or two in his arrangements and so have I. I've incorporated slants and behind the bar pulls when needed.
I totally agree that a large part of the beauty of Lap Steel is its ability to slide from chord to chord and a lot of that is lost in the Leavitt Tuning but what is gained is the wealth of complex chords you could never get in any other tuning no matter how much you slant. That's why Jerry Byrd said to me, "It would make a good tuning on a third neck."

[Ray Montee]

Isn't playing a steel guitar without slants......
sorta like having a car without tires that might go flat?

A car with tank tracks could over-come that potential problem but wouldn't be smarter to learn how to change a tire in an emergency?

Slants are NOT something unusual or difficult to overcome. They are part of the program. By learning how to use the bar, you can become a steel guitar player. Even pedal steel players use them.

Don't settle for becoming half a steel player when you can grab the whole bag!

[Rick Alexander]

I love slants. They allow the sound to flow uninterrupted by blocking and changing grips.
I often resolve a phrase to a 3 string slant and let it sustain.
The more you do it, the less horrible it sounds . .

[Fred Bova]

Yup,
I use something I call GHexatonic.

I do not use, or need slants with this tuning.

You can still do them if you wish, as strings 2-5 are the same intervals as C6.

Strings 2 thru 5 intervals are like High C6/A6 but the top major7th gives me more range, and my choice of notes for 6, 7, and 8, give me some good alt for 2 note harm lines.

1st String = f#
2nd String = d
3rd String = b
4th String = G
5th String = E
6th String = D
7th String = C
8th String = B

I have found that there is some historical ref to this tuning, that even though I found this thru trial and error, I did not "Re-invent the wheel".

When I emailed Alan Akaka as to a ref he made to an FMajor7th tuning.

"and Fmaj7 (E-C-A-F-D-C-A-F)"

1st String = e
2nd String = c
3rd String = a
4th String = F
5th String = D
6th String = C
7th String = A
8th String = F




He replied with this info;

"The F maj7 tuning is one that Mel Abe (who took over Jules Ah See's spot at the Hawaiian Village's Tapa Room after his passing) had on his double 8 Fender out."

"According to musicians I played with two songs were written based on this tuning. "Tonight Mapuana" and "Straight From Hawai'i To You".

"The composer Lani Sang used the F maj7 tuning."

"Another notable musician from yesterday used a similar tuning on her 6 string and mastered it. Her name was Lovey Lui Conn and she was quite a musician and singer. The tuning was E-C-A-F-D-B. So there's a minor on the top three strings, major 7th using the top four strings, major chord using the 2nd through 4th strings, 6th chord using the 2nd to 5th strings, 9th chord strumming the bottom four, and a diminish using the bottom three strings. That's a lot of chords with different colors and that's by using a straight bar. You could find other chord combinations by using slants and split bars."


In ref to my "GHexatonic" tuning he wrote;

"Now I find your hexagonal tuning interesting with a built in major 7th, major 6th and a C chord on the open tuning. I tried playing "Sweet Leilani" utilizing the built-in four chord and came out with pleasing results."


David Kelii used a tuning he called G13th;(No Root)

1st String = e
2nd String = c
3rd String = a
4th String = F
5th String = D
6th String = B

Lovey Lui Conn also used this tuning ;

1st String = e
2nd String = c
3rd String = a
4th String = F
5th String = D
6th String = B

Lani Sang, and Mel Abe used this FMajor7th tuning;

1st String = e
2nd String = c
3rd String = a
4th String = F
5th String = D
6th String = C
7th String = A
8th String = F



Now if you transpose my GHexatonic down one full step to "FHexatonic" you get this;

1st String = e
2nd String = c
3rd String = a
4th String = F
5th String = D
6th String = C
7th String = Bb
8th String = A

Look familiar ?

1 thu 5 are the same as David Kelii, and Lovey Lui Conn.

and...

1 thru 6 are the same as Lani Sang, and Mel Abe

I find my choice of notes/intervals on my 6th, 7th, and 8th strings allows me to do some nice two note harm lines.
( Strings 4 and 6 are 2 1/2 steps apart)
( Strings 5 and 7 are 2 steps apart )
( Strings 6 and 8 are 1 1/2 steps apart )

And, this choice of notes/interval for the strings 5, 6, 7, and 8 opens up lots of chords options.


In GHexatonic I end up with;

G
G6
GMajor7
Em
Em7
C
CMajor7
Bm

Etc.

All without slants.

I prefer G over F because as a guitar player the positions make sense, and I like having a brighter timbre with the f# as my 1st string. It also lets me use a plain /unwound string as my 4th string.

Try it, I am sure you will find it interesting and lots of fun.

Fred

[Jim Mitchell]

My pick would be the C6th tuning.
I don't recall many slants while playing that tuning.

I agree that is what I am working on now C6, as a Beginner I got the Multi Kord in September of 2007. I am 61 been playing guitar since I was 13

MY THREE SONS




I understand the Harlan Brothers Multi Kord is not a real pedal Steel Guitar but it is called a returner, I think the 4 pedals replace the slants.

I purchased the Rondo 6 string to learn the technique of the slide guitar it takes up less space. Put the Kord back in the box for a while
UNTILL I GET GOOD
.
I play the Tennessee Rose Real well

MY SITE FREE C6 TAB
http://www.geocities.com/insp/SUPRO6420.html

[Bob Hoffnar]

I use a C6 tuning but it needs slants to be functional. No tritone interval without slants. I would look at Morrel's E13 or the Levitt tuning. If you are thinking of a modified E9 tuning look closely at including the D and C# notes.

On another level, if you think about it, there are only 12 notes total and if you know where to find them on the neck you can play anything.

[chris ivey]

you know, bob..this is what people have told me all my life, but actually aren't there only eleven...twelve being an octave and so a repeat?

[James Harrison]

No, an octave is 13 notes. Count the root as #1 and the 13th note is the root one octave higher. So there is 12 notes in a scale. There are 7 major notes and 5 sharps or flats in a scale. which is 12 notes. Or did I learn it wrong??
James

[chris ivey]

wow...no wonder i never got anywhere..i've always been a note behind, thanx!

[Chris Drew]

I use the slants that Chris Scruggs mentioned plus a couple more.

Hey Mark, care to share those??

[Mark Mansueto]

I use the slants that Chris Scruggs mentioned plus a couple more.

Hey Mark, care to share those??

Sure, I'll need my steel though so it'll have to wait 'till I'm at home.

[Danny James]

"Multi-Kord not a pedal steel but is called a retuner"

You are somewhat correct Jim, in referring to the Multi-Kord as a retuner, because that is the most unique feature of them. It has the most easily retuned changer of any guitar I know of today. You can put any kind of tuning on it you want in a matter of minutes within the limits of string stretch.

However in my opinion, it is a steel guitar whether it is a resonator acoustic or lapsteel electric, and played with a bar. If it has pedals that change tunings, and I might add Jay Harlin of the Harlin Bros, was the first to patent one, a Multi-Kord is in fact a "pedal steel guitar"

Many people look at the modern Country pedal steel guitars with two necks, 20 strings, 8 pedals, & 5 knee levers as being a true pedal steel guitar. No doubt they are beautifully made and very efficient, but the forerunners were Jay Harlin's Multi-Kord & Alvino Reys Electro Harp pedal steel guitars.

The Multi-Kords were advertised as Hawaiian steel guitars as opposed to Country steel.

I hope you don't leave yours in the closet too long ,as there is a lot of fun to be had on the old MK's yet.

[Mark Mansueto]

I use the slants that Chris Scruggs mentioned plus a couple more.

Hey Mark, care to share those??

Here's a few...




Don't be confused by the E and Emi, I put more that one slant on those so that I wouldn't have to create individual images for each one. If you have a Z-shaped bar you might be able to hit all of those notes though.

[Chris Drew]

Cheers Mark,I'll check those out.

[Ron Whitfield]

I understand that the great steeler, Dwight Harris had bars custom made to access slants much like those top few.

[George Keoki Lake]

Yah Ron...DWIGHT HARRIS, as well as being a super steel guitarist, had a great sense of humor. He fashioned two steel bars, both of which I have, one designed for single notes only, the other for 'built-in' slants. The single note bar is about 1/2" long and 1/4" in diameter...looks like a bullet! His "slant bar" is a combination of 6 or 8 single note bars all welded together in a 'stepping-stone' fashion. Crazy. I wish I could post a pic but my 'peuter talent is not all that great.

Those who may not know of DWIGHT HARRIS...he was well known some 20 years ago and earlier. He played great country, jazz and Hawaiian in and around the Detroit area prior to moving to Ft. Lauderdale, FL. Dwight couldn't find very many real Hawaiian backup musicians in Ft. Laud...he disliked the 'tin-can' Tahitian talent and finaly tossed it all in. He and his son, (a helicopter pilot), "went fishing". Dwight sold all his gear. A sad loss for Hawaiian music as he was highly respected by Jerry Byrd which says a lot! Dwight had a beautiful touch and tone and played a bakelite Rick.

[David Doggett]

I've heard that Don Helms used few or no slants. Not that I have anything against slants. But it is a curiosity that one of the greatest steel players hardly used them.

[C Dixon]

Again, the question was, "The question is which tuning would be best suited for NO slants?"

I would have to agree that either the Levitt tuning OR the Eddie Alkire diatonic tuning, if one wanted to play, using NO slants.

However, these are not the only tunings where given players rarely if ever slanted. In fact, "Western Swing music", was typical of few if any slants on most songs that were played, reagardless of the tuning. I never saw Noel Boggs EVER slant. And he played a 4 neck Fender. And this went for many of those style players.

Further, I have heard some players (and some of these were great players) say that when they hear players "slant" it sounds too "Hawaiian" for their tastes. Thus they tended to relish the playing of Noel Boggs and Tom Morrell over the playing of Jerry Byrd using the SAME tuning (C6).

I personally prefer Jerry Byrd, and unless Jerry plays "Hawaiian" songs, he never sounded "Hawaiian" to me. There is NO way in this world, I could ever think of "I'm so lonesome I could cry" or "Mansion on the Hill", as "Hawaiian"; and as one poster said, Jerry slanted the "hell" out of songs. And these two classics were awash in slants.

Same goes for "La Golendrina" or "LaCumparsita" or "Danny Boy" and countless others; and Jerry was slanting from here to eternity on those awesome renditions. And MOST of the times his slants were to resolve from one "chordal" grip to another, as the strings sustained!

I think it is more of taste in WHAT a player wants to hear, when they are going from say one triad to another. Or one diad to another. Or one chord to another, when it comes to whether they want to slant or not.

You can pick, block, regrip and play on different strings, to get the next note/chord; as Tom Morrell and Cindy Cashdollar do, or you can remain on the SAME strings and resolve with out muting and regripping by slanting often using a sliding of the bar as many do who slant. EVEN Buddy Charleton often slanted on the C neck of his PSG.s. And I attribute this to the fact that Jerry was HIS idol as Jerry was of Buddy and Jimmy Day; and countless others.

But be careful if you do slant more than just now and then, because sooner or later, someone is going to say, "you sound too Hawaiian for my tastes!"

I can guarantee it!

There are simply a lot of players that want to hear EACH note and/or chord picked. IE, never a slur or gliss. Again, Western Swing music dictates this more often than not.

You see this in action, the way MOST PSG players play the C neck versus the E neck. Yet I would venture to say, that IF Jerry Byrd had gone to pedals, he would have played pedals ON the C neck JUST like he did in essence when he played his lapsteel tuned to C6. Only he would have embellished the equivalent slant (using pedals and knee levers) in a way that would have brought a tear to a glass eye.

And today EVEN, I believe, most of the greats would sit there with tears in their eyes (as I personnaly saw Buddy and Jimmy Day do once when JB was playing), if Jerry was playing pedals on C6. And Jesus alone knows what all of us would have done if Jerry had played pedals on E9th. May Jesus bless his precious soul.

"To slant or not to slant! That is the question."

c.

[Rob Stein]

A bit off the topic - but in trying to choose a 6-string lap steel tuning to go with, my main consideration would be the ability to play Blues type of stuff, especially single-note 'lead', mostly pentatonic-based lines. Any thoughts on this?

[John Bushouse]

My favorite for that type of playing is open E (or open D). Having the EBE (high to low, or vice versa) on the bottom strings makes for nice power chords, and lots of "licks" were created on the top 4 strings of open E. Can be subject to cliches, though.

I really like open A or G, but since the relationship between the top 5 strings of open A is the same as the bottom 5 strings of open E, I can still use my open A knowledge in open E.

[C Dixon]

I know of no greater lap tuning for "blues" than C6. Jerry Byrd was the master at creating blues on this tuning.

He parlayed the "3 frets up" on the first three strings, embellishing IM, IVM and VM,like no one I have ever heard (when it comes to "blues"), on the steel guitar.

Add this to his 3 fret, 3 string slants on the first 3 strings, and you have "blues" from here to eternity. In addition, the pentatonic scale is very easily achieved on this tuning using single string type blues compositions.

c.

[David Doggett]

Well, at the risk of extending this hijacking, it depends on what you mean by "blues." If you mean Delta and Chicago style electric blues, the classic is the E or D tuning. I find E more useful, because a guitar band will play more in E than in D. And the other most popular key, A, works out better on an E tuning than a D tuning. Some slide players tuned down to D to avoid string breakage, and the whole band tuned down with them. But that only works if the slide player is the band leader. The Sacred Steelers (gospel/blues) use E7, which helps with fast picking, but it ruins the Elmore James flailing if it is on the top, and ruins the power chord strumming if it is on the bottom. Putting a 6th in there anywhere is even worse.

But I'm from Mississippi and grew up playing Delta blues. I find that country pickers have a different meaning for "blues." They usually mean bluesy country or jazz ballads - all those songs with "blues" in the title, like Steelin' the Blues, Invitation to the Blues, Blues Stay Away From Me; or the classic blues songs like Summertime and St. Louis Blues. For that stuff, Carl is right, C6 or A6 are the tunings of choice, not just for the 6th chords (which have a very dated sound), but for the minor chords and major 7ths.