6 string tuning help

Paul Smith · Post by **Paul Smith** » 9 Apr 2008 5:37 am

Hello,

I currently play 6 string lap steel in open "E" tuning
(E,B,E,G#,B,E) and I am currently having a new lap steel built for myself. I am thinking of going to a 6th tuning for more sonic options,(country,jazz,hawaiian...etc) and I have never played a 6th tuning. Would it be wise to go to an E6th tuning where I will already have somewhat of a working knowledge of the fret board, or would a C6th be a better option as there seems to be more instructional
material...etc for that tuning.

thanks for the help,

smitty

John Burton · Post by **John Burton** » 9 Apr 2008 5:48 am

I still consider myself a newbie to steel. (But an old guitar player)..but my 2 cents..these are the two tunings I use:
E6, lo to hi:
E,G#,B,C#,E and G#
C6, lo to hi:
C,E,G,A,C,E

So, as you can see, the E6 tuning (or e13?) tuning is simply four frets higher than the E tuning. OR C6 tuning is four frets lower than e6..in otherwords if you know fret positions for one, the other is easy enough to transpose. Tune one lap to C6 and one to E6 and you can quickly transpose tunes (after your ear gets used to it).
That's just the way I look at it..kinda like a capo.
But, again, I'm just a newbie.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 9 Apr 2008 8:37 am

The newbie is correct. The E6 he's talking about and the C6 he's talking about are tuned at the same intervals. The instructional material for them, written in tablature, is interchangeable. But it will be in a different key in each tuning.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 12 Apr 2008 9:01 am

You can take all kinds of short-cuts in learning to play the steel guitar but.........

WHO will be the ultimate loser?

Tune the thing the way it's supposed to be tuned. Stay in that particular tuning until you have all of the frets properly identified. Learn that tuning inside and out. Learn lot's of the those little signature licks that THAT tuning allows.

THEN, and ONLY THEN, explore another tuning to see what it might offer you.
THE FRETTING INTERVALS are ALWAYS the same so WHAT's the BIG DEAL? The E6th you mention is only going to give you a "different sound", not really anything else different or am I wrong?

You're NEVER GOING TO FIT IN with the BIG BOYS if you can't master your own instrument. Don't be too quick, to short-change yourself.

BYRD, EMMONS, DAY, GREEN, HUGHY and all the many, many others did not get where they got, by trying to screw around with short-cuts. APPLY what brains you have, learn the guitar and then master it. THEN YOU will be one happy feller!

Jim Strawser · Post by **Jim Strawser** » 20 Apr 2008 10:42 pm

Thats what I love about Ray's advice, it is painfully prophetic but true!! Im a newbie as well and as many here have said, use the three P's ...patience, persistence and practice. Good Luck to you!

Greg Gefell · Post by **Greg Gefell** » 16 Jul 2008 7:12 am

Paul - I switched from E major to E6 without too much pain by using a red colored string from a pack of DR brand red devils for the C# note. It was a quick visual reminder to help keep the new string grips in check while you retrain the muscle memory.

You'll be glad you switched, the easy minors open up a lot of new doors.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 16 Jul 2008 7:55 am

Although I agree with Ray's advice, you could easily change your current open E tuning to E6 by raising the second string (B) to C#.

1. E
2. C#
3. G#
4. E
5. B
6. E

Sol Ho'opi'i used this tuning pretty successfully.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 16 Jul 2008 11:00 am

Hey Smitty,
Ray's right. You can play a lot in a major tuning like the E tuning you use, but a 6th tuning is pretty good. Do what Brad suggests and raise your second to C# to get the 6th tone, and see how you like it. The 6th tuning may not feel as intuaitive to you at first if you're use to a major tuning, but once you spend a little time with it it's a great tuning. You probably know this, but one of the nice things with the 6th tuning is that there is a major, a 6th, a minor, and a minor 7th chord in the tuning.

I started playing lap steel in a major tuning because I already played bottle neck slide in the same tuning, and then I went to the C6 tuning where there are more chords right there. I've recently gotten a second lap steel that is tuned to A6 (eight string), so I put my old six string lap steel back to the E major tuning. After having been away from the E major tuning for awhile, I'm having a blast with it, it's such a fun tuning, and I'm finding things in it that I hadn't heard before when I used to play it. You can do a lot with either tuning, but each has it's own charcteristics and feel.

Cliff

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Jul 2008 8:46 pm

Would it be wise to go to an E6th tuning where I will already have somewhat of a working knowledge of the fret board...

Yes, I think E6 is an excellent choice. Familiarity is important... but keep in mind that there are many other tunings that offer different "flavors", and eventually you will want become familiar with a couple of other tunings.

Below is the version of E6 that I am currently playing. I like it because the chord positions are somewhat similar to the "E shape" bar chord on standard guitar and the tuning is also a little bit like E9 pedal steel guitar.

I played E6 on my version of SleepWalk (link below). I currently have three lap steel students that are learning this tuning.

[tab]
E6

1. E .015 root
2. B .019 5
3. G# .022p 3
4. E .032 root
5. C# .036 6
6. B .038 5
[/tab]

No one tuning will give you "everything", but a 6th tuning is the best all-round choice for most kinds of music, in my opinion. You'll get full (3-note) major and minor chords, and 6th chords. For rock and blues just go with a major tuning with power chord (root, 5) on the low end. Have fun with it.

Fred Bova · Post by **Fred Bova** » 16 Jul 2008 8:55 pm

Ray, you wrote;
"Tune the thing the way it's supposed to be tuned."

Huh...?

And just what is "the way it's supposed to be tuned."?

I do not believe that there is a single "Holy Grail" tuning that is perfect for everyone, for everything.

Many if not all of the greats, past and present, used and/or use multiple tunings.

Even the great Jerry Byrd "developed / morphed" existing tunings until he found a number of tunings that hused for his entire career.

He tried them, developed them, used them, and now we use them, and are thankful that he did spend the time to go a little "left of center".

Yes, I believe it is good to try some of the "tried and true" common tunings, C6, etc. when you are just starting out, as you may find yourself in sync with one of these, and then you more inclined to keep playing instead of packing it up and selling it on eBay.

However, there is nothing wrong with trying something new. For even if after awhile you decide it has major limitations, you will have learned a lot, and know your instrument and your needs a lot better.

I also think that when you are starting to learn the steel and you have been playing regular 6 string guitar for awhile there are some Tunings / Keys that can be more familiar and help in understanding how the instrument is laid out. E_and G_ seem to be easy for many guitar players to relate to.

The nice thing about non-pedal steel playing is that if you want to try something you don't have to re-do all your pedal pulls etc.,...... and then put it all back.

My suggestion is to look at a number of tunings, and make a chart of the INTERVALS between the strings and on what string(s) the I / ROOT is located.

Forget about the KEY, if it is C6,B6,A6, etc. just make a chart of the INTERVALS, they are the Signatures of the tunings.

If you take a large number of tunings and break them down to their Interval Signatures and chart them side by side you will find a lot of 4 and 5 string Interval Patterns that just start on different strings.

If you do make and study an Interval Chart you will find that just by detuning a few strings you will be able to try a large number of Tunings via the Interval Signatures.

Yes the Key they end up in may be odd, Bb6, or Ebm, but that does not matter at this point as you are just wanting to try and see if the Interval Signature feels like it is something you would like to pursue.

You may find you like a III on top, or a V on top, or maybe even a Major7th on top.

And if you do this and find something cool, post it here, so I can try it too.

Fred

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Jul 2008 9:17 pm

...I've been wondering how it's "supposed to be tuned" for 40 years!

If you take a large number of tunings and break them down to their Interval Signatures and chart them side by side you will find a lot of 4 and 5 string Interval Patterns that just start on different strings.

True. That's one fascinating aspect of the lap steel guitar. Many tunings share common intervals... or parts of the tunings share common intervals, just in different keys.

For example, strings 6 through 3 of my E6 tuning are the set up exactly like strings 4 through 1 of the C6 tuning: 5th, 6th, Root, 3rd. So a player could play "Steelin' the Blues" on strings 6 through 3 of the E6 tuning (as I have it set up) using hammer-ons on fret 1. Of course, the song would be in the key of F, and would sound lower than the original.

[tab]
E6

1. E root
2. B 5
3. G# 3
4. E root
5. C# 6
6. B 5
-----------------

C6

1. E 3
2. C root
3. A 6
4. G 5
5. E 3
6. C root

[/tab]

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 22 Jul 2008 3:37 am

Doug I like your e6th tuning. How would an e6th 10 string look, and also do you have any scale exercises for this tuning?

James Harrison · Post by **James Harrison** » 22 Jul 2008 10:51 pm

Hi Ray, Since you said tune it the way it is supposed to be tuned. What is the way a 6 string and an 8 string is supposed to be tuned? I would like to know, I am still learning and you seem to already know.
James

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 23 Jul 2008 12:59 am

How would an e6th 10 string look...

For 10-string, I would expand the tuning to E13. I like Tom Morrell's E13 tuning, except I have a B on string 10:

1. G#
2. F#
3. E
4. C#
5. B
6. G#
7. F#
8. E
9. D
10. B

Below are some harmonized major scales for 6-string E6.

Chuck S. Lettes · Post by **Chuck S. Lettes** » 23 Jul 2008 7:59 am

Hi Paul,
I also would recommend some kind of 6th tuning, especially for its versatility. I use a modied C6th tuning: (highest) GECAGF (lowest). Here's a link to a lesson I created, using this tuning. http://www.pedalsteelguitar.net/lapsteel.php
Best of luck with the 6 string.
Chuck

Chuck Fisher · Post by **Chuck Fisher** » 23 Jul 2008 5:33 pm

hawaiian e-13 aint bad, DG#BC#E BASS TO TREBLE

E major and D major both have the IV7 chord on forward slant

E13 has a major7 chord on forward slant

DADGAD is one note off Dmajor and gandy as its neither major or minor.

Ray Langley · Post by **Ray Langley** » 7 Dec 2008 11:10 am

Just a note for those who play in E Major tuning:

Doug's Harmonized Scales in the Key of G, for E6 tuning are the same as E Major tuning on strings 1-4. In other words the scales in Doug's diagram are all directly transferrable, except for measure 3 which uses string 5.

Blake Wilson · Post by **Blake Wilson** » 9 Dec 2008 4:18 pm

I recently got tired of trying to play Don Helms' Hank stuff in C6 because you've got to play waaaaay up high on the neck, so I tried out his E6. All my C6 stuff still works, but now my Gibson BR6 has got a sweeter, more "authentic" tone to it. All the strings are lighter gauge as well, which has given me a slightly different touch/approach to picking. I wouldn't have thought that simply raising the tuning a major third would have much impact, but it has. I also like to occasionally raise the low E to F giving me handy 7th's and dim chords, in a variation of Jerry's C6/A7 tuning and a kind of halfway point to a modified Leavitt tuning.

Regards,

Blake

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