Buying Advice

Tom Fuller · Post by **Tom Fuller** » 25 May 2008 9:11 pm

I am looking at getting a decent pedal steel and have seen these two MSA's on ebay. Really looking at getting a D10 setup so I can eventually learn some C6. Trying to keep the investment under 2K. Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated

Tom Fuller
Springfield, MO

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0225362621

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0240342942

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 25 May 2008 9:33 pm

these msa's look like decent deals to me if the prices stay very near the starting price..

just noticed a d10 classic ss 8+5 on the forum instruments for sale...$1100...even better deal!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 26 May 2008 1:01 am

Tom, ebay is a gamble compared to buyin'a steel from a Fo'bro
considering your budget, i'm sure you can find an excellent model right here among us

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 26 May 2008 1:41 am

I would say that these old MSA's are very nice Steels, and pretty much the only reason that they are lower priced is due to the weight. They are really fine Steels. I had a D12 once that was a great Steel but the weight factor kept it from being a gig Steel.

Excellent Instruments but just know that they are very heavy. I would buy one in a NY minute if I decided to have a HOME Steel only.

good luck

tp

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 26 May 2008 9:17 am

Keep in mind that the pedal steel has more mechanical issues than other instruments. Generally I do not think ebay is a good place to buy a pedal steel unless you really know what you are doing and can do your own set ups and repairs.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 26 May 2008 9:40 am

I agree with Crowbear and Bob - I would be very reluctant to advise a beginner to buy a steel without either being able to try it or have a lot of confidence in the seller. Obviously, being able to try it out with someone knowledgable at your side is ideal, and being a forum seller doesn't guarantee confidence. But if you stick to well-known forum players/sellers, ask pointed questions, get good pics on the thread, and get solid answers and terms-of-sale, I think the odds are better than with anonymous online sellers. Just my opinion.

Here's that forum MSA D-10, if it's not already sold - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=134712

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 26 May 2008 10:09 am

why don't you shoot for a UNI here on the forum.....Easiest way if you'd ask me.

Ron

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 May 2008 12:17 pm

I agree. you need to buy from a dealer if you are a beginner. Older pedals steels have issues.

Tom Fuller · Post by **Tom Fuller** » 26 May 2008 6:25 pm

Thanks for the info. Just trying to find the best bang for my buck. I just got back from overseas and am trying to get back into the fold. I will keep my eyes open and hopefully find something for a good price and locally. I still haven't ruled out something new.

Tom Fuller
Springfield, MO

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 26 May 2008 6:41 pm

Those are both fine steels, although they are very heavy.

The second one is a Vintage XL and is a few years younger than the fort one. The primary difference between the 2 is that the classic has a double raise double lower changer, and the Vintage XL has a triple raise triple lower. This makes a difference on a 12 string with a universal tining, where you need a triple raise on 2 strings, but is less important on a double neck.

Judging from the picture, the undercarriage on the Vintage XL looks to be in good working order.

The real questions you need to ask yourself are 1: do I want a double neck? Am I interested in playing C6? and 2: Are you willing to haul around an extremely heavy guitar or do you want something lighter and easier to carry around?

If you don't mind the weight, I'd say go for either of them.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 May 2008 1:06 am

I am not sure I understand all of this ONLY BUY from a Dealer stuff. Buy from a reputable person who may or may not be a dealer. Contact the seller , have a discussion with the seller. Ask the right questions.

there are plenty of quality folks who sell Instruments who are not dealers and are first class , such is the case on this forum. Being a dealer does not necessarily state that the person knows what they are doing or is ethical. Thats not a given.

"In one door out the other" is what some dealers do..

I'm not a dealer but I have sold countless Instruments, Cars, etc... and I doubt there is anyone that could represent a sale better than I, probably the same, but not better.

Now, that being said, there are several high class folks hanging out on this forum who are dealers as well.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 May 2008 1:24 am

Either of these steels would probably do nicely, but one is priced (right now) at $1500, and the other at $1300. Considering you're going to pay shipping, and that the prices may go up, and that they may require setting up and adjusting, the $1500 one is already at it max value, IMHO.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 27 May 2008 5:13 am

Donny Hinson wrote:Either of these steels would probably do nicely, but one is priced (right now) at $1500, and the other at $1300. Considering you're going to pay shipping, and that the prices may go up, and that they may require setting up and adjusting, the $1500 one is already at it max value, IMHO.

Those old maple body MSAs are great guitars. I'm happy with mine, aside from the weight issue. Heck, if I played a D-10 I'd consider buying both of them. I don't know what they are worth, but considering the price of new guitars, I think both of these are very good deals.

The $1,500 one is several years newer and has the more advanced changer than the other one. I don't know how much that matters, but I thought I'd mention it.

Tom Fuller · Post by **Tom Fuller** » 27 May 2008 5:37 am

Thanks all again for the information. I am still up in the air on these. I am not at all experienced on the older guitars and really hate to buy a pig-in-a-poke. I had a Carter Starter about 4 yrs ago. Was not for me. I guess my expectations were too high. Granted I am beginning(again!) but I can afford a higher quality guitar. For me this is a long term investment and I am not in too much of a hurry to get one purchased. The Carter's look quite enticing and are in the price range that I am looking. A good thing about being here in SW Missouri is there are some local players and resources. I am going to the Steel Show in Marshfield here in a couple of weeks. I will be able to look up close and hopefully make a decision.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 27 May 2008 8:10 am

Mark, you need to ask yourself whether or not you want a double neck. If you don't, there no point in buying either of the MSAa on E-bay.

If you do, you should get one of them.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 May 2008 8:21 am

The $1,500 one is several years newer and has the more advanced changer than the other one. I don't know how much that matters, but I thought I'd mention it.

It matters far less with a D10 than it would with a universal (S12). Either of these is probably superior to the plywood MSA I played for 29 years. Both have a solid maple body, the neck stub, and lack the center rod support; all of which are said to improve tone and sustain.

I agree that you'd be hard pressed to find something comparable in any other brand for less money.

Tom Fuller · Post by **Tom Fuller** » 28 May 2008 5:40 am

I received some more pics on the MSA Classic and other than it being dirty and a couple of bent rods looks to be complete. Is there anyone local in the SW MO area that could go through it and tune it up? I really like this ol' classic and do not mind the weight. Plus I can go to Tulsa to pick it up. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0225362621

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 28 May 2008 5:47 am

Tom Fuller wrote: Is there anyone local in the SW MO area that could go through it and tune it up?

Scotty's in St. Louis must either have or knw of somebody who could do if for you.

Matthew Carlin · Post by **Matthew Carlin** » 28 May 2008 6:50 am

If your looking at the 77 MSA D-10 in the for sale section, I would worry about the condition, Paul helped me out when I got my 81 MSA UNI, he really knows how to set up these guitars. I'll be takin mine over to him when I need to change the copedent.

thats my .02

Matt

Dale Gray · Post by **Dale Gray** » 28 May 2008 7:08 am

First of all, 1 of the sellers just joined Ebay this month, that would be a red flag for me. My suggestion would be to read Bobbe Seymour's story first. Dale

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 28 May 2008 8:44 am

Tom, you said you don't mind the weight...but are you REALLY sure?

A few years ago I made my second jump into steel, didn't know a lot, and bought an MSA Classic because I was familiar with the name, it looked nice, and it was not overly expensive for a D10. Unfortunately the guitar had several issues which, trying to solve myself, just got worse (I'm a good 6-string tech and amp tech and thought some of it might relate - wrong!); also, the weight I thought wouldn't bother me was a real hindrance, both working on it and moving it around. What I *did* like is that it had volume and ton controls (I didn't notice if these did) but on the other hand there wasn't much "tone" to control...it was pretty dry. I would suppose one of these in good working order, properly serviced might be a decent guitar, but IMO $1500 is about $500 high considering you may have to have it serviced - and if no one is local to you the shipping cost will be astronomical, again because of the weight.

If I had a time machine I'd take a good look at buying a GFI Economy model with 2 added knee levers. They're about as close to a pro model as you can get without somebody calling it "pro", is brand new (and would be properly set up if you get it from Bobbe or another reputable shop) and very light. Unless you really need a D-10 (I didn't) that, to me, is a better bang-for-the-buck.

William Fraser · Post by **William Fraser** » 29 May 2008 2:45 am

I recently sold an MSA Classic S-10 on ebay. I think the Classic series is one of the best bargains out there. They are very servicable ,easy to tune ,nice pedal action , EXCELLENT support from the manufacturer ,& Knees that are comfortable & well designed .I sell using the But IT Now or Best Offer format. It allows for some dialogue ,between buyer & seller . I do NOT want to sell somthing & ship it to an impulse buyer.If the item doesn't sell ,the cost is VERY low ,& you can give the buyer an idea of what it will cost to buy, I try to include the shipped price. If I am dealing with a beginner I send some learning material , & try to find out if music theory is a subject they understand . I am not a dealer , & have 100 % rating & well over 200 deals. I would reccomend A LOT of forum members in a heart beat ,for a first time purchase , BUT I have also been hood winked more than once on the forum , No matter where you buy ,if you don't get proper & prompt answers to your inquiries ,move on ! Most steelers will go out of thier way to recruit a new player , & provide pertinent info upon request. We were all newbies once & should be willing to pay our dues ,& help where we can ,without butting in. I have sold my last FEW guitars in europe , & I send them out in the shape I would like to recieve them .I bought my Player from Duane Reese , he is one of the good guys. I also prefer to spend my money with The Coopers , or Scotty. I always reccomend Jagwires ,from the forum , & depend on reviews I get HERE. We could use a feedback system , just to help us feel better when sending Money to folks we haven't met. I would never have bought my 2nd MSA if not for the ravings of Darvin ,Bo , & Bob C. BTW the weight of my S-10 3&4 Classic in it's case was 64 LBS. I found it helpful to ship the legs & accessories in a seperate box. $ 275 insured to Switzerland , the limit is 66 LBS. Bill, AKA w.t.kidd on ebay

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 May 2008 3:11 am

William Fraser wrote:I recently sold an MSA Classic S-10 on ebay....They are very servicable ,easy to tune ,nice pedal action , EXCELLENT support from the manufacturer...

EXCELLENT support from the manufacturer?

I'm afraid I'll just have to ask the embarrassing question:

On what, exactly, do you base that statement?

William Fraser · Post by **William Fraser** » 29 May 2008 11:30 am

Hey Donnie , I may have been feeling my meds this morning , but I can't count the times that Reece has answered questions ,concerning Orders & manufacture dates , or parts availability . I am getting fonder of MSA , & will keep looking for the perfect one . Bill

Dale Gray · Post by **Dale Gray** » 29 May 2008 2:15 pm

Tom: Have you thought about giving Scotty a phone call in St. Louis? Your only 200-250 miles from there and could get more info about a guitar from them. Plus if it was shipped from there it shouldn't be an arm and leg. Just a thought. Dale.

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