Blackjack or Carter SD-10

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 27 Apr 2008 12:43 pm

The thought of getting a pedal steel guitar has haunted me since about 1972. In real life I have never touched one, but I have played guitar for 47 years and have experimented with a lapsteel for a couple of years.

Now having cross searched this forum and the internet, it seems to boil down to getting either a Blackjack or a Carter SD-10. So what to choose?

I love the looks of the old Sho-Buds, so no doubt the fretboard of the the Blackjack appeals more to me. My wife who has always understood my guitar needs also thinks the Blackjack looks better. The Carter has a more clinical look to us (we are both doctors). As for tone this is, of course, hard to judge from what is available over the internet. But in Chris’ Youtube videos the Blackjack has the sound I like (could be his playing, of course). Particularly the one through a Twin Reverb, my main amp for guitars. Also, the Blackjack is cheaper, even if I choose the Custom version.

So why not just wait three months or whatever for a Blackjack? Well, since I am in Europe it looks like shipping is about $500. That will be about the same for both guitars, but if I need to return it for repair that would be $1000 for the trip back and forth plus struggling to avoid to pay customs for a repair. And I have a feeling a Carter would be easier to get repaired in Europe. Maybe Carter is generally a safer choice because of a broader worldwide customer base? The Carter also looks more flexible in terms of getting extra levers installed.

So this is where I am at the moment, leaning mainly toward the Blackjack. I have skipped the cheaper student models because of the high shipping cost. Having to pay this I might just as well skip the student step. On the other hand I don’t imagine getting a real expensive PSG later on. I just want to record some simpler backing tracks, chords and some fills, for my ordinary guitar playing ... and generally have fun.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 27 Apr 2008 1:13 pm

Hi Tom, you might check the Online Steelers web page: http://www.onlinesteelers.com/ there are 16 listed for Denmark, I'll bet you could get some first hand information. Maybe get a chance to actually try out a few different guitars before you make up your mind. Good Luck.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 27 Apr 2008 1:27 pm

Hi Tom,
Great choice you made about getting into pedal steel.Warning: You'll get hooked so bad that there will be no way out ..you'll just have to hang in and learn to play it!

As to you purchasing a steel: I suggest you contact many of the established steel players and or dealers in your own country and other countries in Europe. There you most certainly find a steel that will suit you: likely a used one that is all fixed up and ready to play. With the favorable Euro, and favourable cross-border trading agreements in Europe I would think that you won't have a problem.
Start out with your own steel players, "Turbo" or Nils Tuxen for starters.
If you want to explore a neighboring country, read up on the Norwegian steel forum:
http://www.steelgitarklubb.com/
There they have Dag Wolf as the primary pedal steel guru. He can get you set up with whatever you would like.

If you would like more info, or just want to have a friendly chat, please email me through the forum here.
I speak Norwegian and understand Danish as long as you don't talk too fast!
Good luck!
Bent

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 27 Apr 2008 1:34 pm

there are some very good guitars made on your side of the pond and you could add the high shiping to the price of purchase, check with crowbear or some of the others.

ernie

Martin Abend · Post by **Martin Abend** » 27 Apr 2008 1:36 pm

Get a WBS Basic from Wolfgang Bednarz in Germany. They're 950 EUR and hard to beat featurewise:

http://www.wbssteelguitars.com/models.html

Best,

MArtin

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 27 Apr 2008 7:05 pm

Tom,

I'm glad you liked my videos.....the one with the Twin sounds better because it doesn't have that high-end hiss of the first one. Could have something to do with the Twin, though...ha.

I owned a Carter SD10 and of course now own a Blackjack. I really like the Blackjack. It will give you good old vintage tone in a modern unit. It stays in tune and is fairly lightweight but not "jumpy". If you are gonna get a Carter, I advise you to get one with BCT. Also, the George L E-66 is a great pickup for the Carter.

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 27 Apr 2008 10:49 pm

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately there is nowhere to buy steel guitars in Denmark except Henning Koch who sells StageOne (former Zumsteel) and charges too much in my opinion. I can import a Blackjack for the money he wants for a StageOne. Then, of course, he does give you service and four lessons in the package, but still.

Maybe I should go and see "Turbo"? I met him about two years ago in the guitar shop I frequent (BigTone). Very nice guy. He plays Zumsteel.

As for Chris' videos I am probably the one who has watched them the most times. Really like that tone on the Twin Reverb.

Will I get completely absorbed in steel playing? Probably not. I have always liked the instrument. Now that I am getting arthritis of my fingers, mainly my left hand doing the string bending on guitars, holding a steel with that hand can extend the number of hours I can have fun playing. I will be happy using PSG to make backing tracks for my songs. So chords and occasionals fills is all I aim at. Therefore, a step up PSG like Blackjack or a others in the cheaper pro range would be perfect.

... then, of course, you never know what happens once you get the hang of it.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 28 Apr 2008 12:34 am

Hi Tom
considering the €uro versus the US $, i would definitely buy a steel in the USA & have it shipped over
as to the choice of brand & model, there really are a lot of good ones nowadays
if you get a chance to try some in DK or elsewhere DO IT !
last but not least, you'll find some very good deals from the Fo'Bros here

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 28 Apr 2008 9:43 am

At the risk of being a contrarian, I'd say support your local economy over an import if you can! As for repairs, with a new guitar, you won't need any. As for when it comes time to make modifications, or something breaks, owning a steel is like the early days of owning a car, you fix it yourself!

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 28 Apr 2008 11:17 am

Martin Abend wrote:Get a WBS Basic from Wolfgang Bednarz in Germany. They're 950 EUR and hard to beat featurewise:

http://www.wbssteelguitars.com/models.html

Best,

MArtin

That's what I ordered a couple of weeks ago, it will be here soon, hopefully - I will give a report here once it arrives, but since I'm a total beginner I guess I want be able to do any comparisons to other models, etc.

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 28 Apr 2008 11:42 am

Heres a much simpler opinion: Blackjack

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 28 Apr 2008 12:59 pm

Carter was quick to respond. They can ship for less than $200 and also give me some other advantages reducing final cost for me. Carter is the safest choice for service, spare parts, a more established company. So I may end up choosing a Carter.

... It is just that I think the Blackjack has more vibe. And Jackson has not responded yet.

The WBS is out of question. It is a student model. May be fine, but I have decided to get a PSG a step or two up from the student level. I don't want to upgrade after 6-12 months, and I can afford to spend a little extra. I can always sell a Stratocaster or two.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 28 Apr 2008 1:45 pm

Tom,

Try Dawn Jackson at:

dawn@jacksonsteelguitar.com

Unless she's traveling, you should get a quick response.

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 28 Apr 2008 11:33 pm

I have sent another mail using the above address.

While I am wondering what to do, Carter har more expansion possibilities. It already comes with 5 knee levers. I could also have another pedal added. Would I need that? I regularly see PSGs with a 4th pedal with "Franklin set up". Could I have any use for that, or are three standard pedals all I will need for a long time (maybe forever)?

Malcolm McMaster · Post by **Malcolm McMaster** » 29 Apr 2008 12:10 am

Tom, Ted Nesbitt of Rainbow music Ireland has two Carters for sale , give him a call, and you can always get a cheap ryanair flight over to pick it up yourself.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 29 Apr 2008 8:25 am

Tom,

I've had a Carter S/D 10 4 & 5 for about 2 years now and am really pleased with it.

Larry

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 29 Apr 2008 12:22 pm

Okay, so I corresponded with Ted Nesbitt in Northern Ireland. He had a Rains that could be interesting, but was sold yesterday. Carter was sold too, but a new one is coming in. Unfortunately it is green which is not my color, and price will be about the same as when dealing direct with Carter.

Jackson has responded. Shipping $370 and 14-16 weeks wait. Pricewise the difference toward Carter thus decreases to almost disappears. Also I would like an armrest (I think). It can be bought as an extra attachable from elsewhere, though, for the Blackjack. $100 plus shipping to Europe.

Now, my guitar playing has been very influenced by Knopfler/Dire Straits. So I am familiar with Paul Franklin. I have researched a litte about the Franklin pedal, and maybe that would be a nice addition. I guess this pulls me toward the Carter too, since Blackjack cannot get a fourht pedal?

This is about where my search has taken metoday.

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 11 May 2008 11:53 am

FOLLOW UP

Someone in this thread suggested I talk to "Turbo" aka Torben Koch. So I did. He lives close by, so I spent an afternoon with him. And it happened that he knew about someone in Copenhagen who had Zumsteel SD-10 for sale in mint condition.

With the help of my brother I got the Zumsteel Friday and had Torben check it out for me today. It is in perfect condition, so I bought it.

While researching and listening to mp3s and Youtube stuff it became clear to me that the Zumsteel had the sound I was after, and I like its looks too.

Several people have emailed me privately, and one actually stated: "It appears to me that what you really want is a Zumsteel, so go get it.". I just thought it would be very difficult more than a year's wait for a new one and very few for sale. So finding one at a reasonable price was sheer luck.

Thanks for your advice, everybody. I may post pictures next week.

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 11 May 2008 1:59 pm

Tom, you got very lucky finding a Zumsteel locally. That's a top-grade guitar and I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.

Enjoy!

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 11 May 2008 2:54 pm

Tom, it was I who recommended you speak to Turbo.
I see you got a Zum. You can't do any better than that.

That guitar will give you years of excellent service, great tone and Mr Bruce Zumsteg's name behind it. Wow, you really got hold of one..what a stroke of luck! Especially in little Denmark!
I am happy for you my friend.
good luck
Bent

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 12 May 2008 8:07 am

Okay, so here I am with the Zumsteel. Must be the ultimate starter PSG, right? My wife already likes the sound I make with it. She the perfect wife for a hobby musician. Once she said, "I don't like that empty space on the wall, go buy another guitar we can hang there ..." And she was not joking.

Gary Cosden · Post by **Gary Cosden** » 12 May 2008 8:21 am

Tom - you are a lucky man. Two keepers! (the wife and the zum)

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 12 May 2008 8:30 am

you done real good there Tom
consider yerself blessed to have found that Zum in Dk
saved you a lot of time & worry
now get pickin' !

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 12 May 2008 8:39 am

I'd agree,the ultimate "starter" steel... I went through a whole lot of guitars before I settled on my Zum SD-10. Enjoy! And remember to refridgerate that Bailey's after opening...

Tom Buur · Post by **Tom Buur** » 12 May 2008 8:53 am

Mark van Allen wrote:... And remember to refridgerate that Bailey's after opening...

That Bailey's is for the wife. And yes, she is a keeper. She was just 20 when I met her 33 years ago, and I have always been happy with her. The perfect match.