Stick to the tune---WHADAYATHINK?

[chris ivey]

yes, jerry...i think you should pigeonhole all players into one mindset....to become the mindless sheep that pedal steel players have always been known to be in musical history.

[Eric Jaeger]

Even John Coltrane "just played the melody".

At least to start

-eric

[Jerry Johnston]

Thanx guys,
You've offered some pretty neat commentary.
Playing fills was mentioned and I think that is a good place to exhibit your creativity. Also when I,m playing 'backgound', I try to blend in a full harmony chord so as not to clash with the vocalist.
Less is better was also mentioned. I have a handwritten letter from Jerry Byrd which I treasure greatly and have it hanging on my music room wall. In it he says "some players try to see how many notes they can put in a measure. It is the quality you put in a note that counts".
Also, with regard to an instrumental, I like to play once thru sticking to the melody. The second time I may get creative or at least play it higher on the neck to give it a different sound.

Jerry Johnston

twin twelve Sho-Bud
single twelve Kline

Started with no talent--still have most of it.

[Wally Taylor]

I think Bobbe Seymour said it best when he related about how he first came to Nashville and discovered that the great steel players, although they could play very well, chose instead to play tastefully.
The steel and the rest of the music enhanced the singers song by playing "tastefully".
Good lesson to remember at all times I think.

Wally

[Jim Cohen]

...although they could play very well, chose instead to play tastefully...

'instead'??
.

[Wally Taylor]

Good catch Jim.
Guess I should have explained a little more in detail. Instead of really showing off or trying to be the "star", the greats chose to play tastefully and not really try to take over the song.
We all know Buddy, Hal, JH, Jimmy Day and others could play very well, yet they kept their playing in check and were professional enough to play just enough on a song to enhance it, not overpower it.
Perhaps I should return to my cage now.

[Dave Mudgett]

"Know Your Audience", and "When in Rome".

Of course, if you can't do that, just play something you think sounds good. I like the "second voice" thought, I think I look at it like that.

It was also suggested that the writer's intention should be respected. I suppose - if you actually know that intention, if he or she is a good arranger, and you haven't got something that works better in Rome - that is reasonable. But I don't think this is mandatory. Are you really suggesting that nobody should ever rearrange a tune?

All my opinions, of course.

[Bob Farlow]

When asked about playing the melody, Chet Atkins replied "If my mother walks in where I'm playing, I would hope she would recognize the song." I think that about says it all.

[Ernest Cawby]

We are not being paid to write a new song just enhance what the singer has said.
Stay of the singer when his lips are moving we are not, I notice don Helms puts his elbows on his steel and head in hand to keep from playing to much, I think it can be said he played well.
If it is a song that is not popular or well known it may be best to stay with the melody, on some songs as said before there are some great rides like city Lights.

ern

[Jody Sanders]

Years ago in a famous old studio in Nashville there was a sign above the door that read :"What happened to the melody?" . Jody.

[Don Brown, Sr.]

There are simply too many equasions that come into play to answer this question correctly.

If you're on the road with the recording artist who had/has the song out, then by all means you'll either play as close to the recording as possible or you won't have your job very long.

On the other hand, if you're playing in a local band or any band, with a singer who's singing another's song, you'll find that doesn't hold true. Some of the reasons why it doesn't is the fact that since there may not be all of the instruments that were used during the original's recording you'll have to do a lot of filling in that you otherwise wouldn't be doing at all.

I've worked with as little as two pieces. "One time"(long story there) Singer/baseplayer and myself. And up. But each circumstance was quite different from another.

The important things are that you don't step on the singer, don't clash with the other musicians, and don't try to be the show unless it's your time to shine.

It's your job to compliment the singer, and add to the group, "not take away from." And simply because a song has been recorded by studio musicians, does NOT say there aren't other ways of expressing what you feel during the fills. Many times, how it was recorded is fine, but that's simply not always the case.

Look at "Proud Mary" and other songs, and 20 different groups performing and you'll hear just as many differences as opposed to CCR's version. But most all of them are fantastic versions of the song, and the musicians are really cutting loose. "Good example"

Again, yes! When playing behind a recording artist, by all means, do your best to play the song as recorded, or again, you may find yourself walking the street looking for a job after word gets out you were let go.

Other than that remember, variety is definitely the spice of life. Play it like you own it when the time is right.

[Drew Howard]

The only recent tune that had a melody, not to mention steel guitar or instruments playing the melody, was Josh Turner's "Your Man".

[Joel Johnston]

I agree with Don above "The important things are that you don't step on the singer, don't clash with the other musicians, and don't try to be the show unless it's your time to shine." Jerry is my Dad and having been a sideman and singer beside his steel playing all my life I understand what he's getting at. I have always appreciated the fact that he fills between the vocal phrases and tastefully enhances what I'm singing without stepping on my vocal. Most of what I'm hearing on the radio these days reminds me of the last verse of "Bonaparte's Retreat" when everybody plays the instrumental part at once (including the bagpipes!) - it's like a musical wrestling match.
The steel guitar is unique in that it is a very complicated instrument that, even though the player might choose to "simply" stay on the melody, what he plays may not be that "simple" because of the options he has to mash pedals, pull knee levers or bend the bar to arrive at chord variations and combinations that only a steel guitar can produce - while invoking emotion with volume pedal dynamics. John Hughey and Jerry Bird ballads come to mind and I know those are two of Dad's biggest heroes of Steel Guitar.

Joel Johnston

[Richard Sinkler]

Most of what I'm hearing on the radio these days reminds me of the last verse of "Bonaparte's Retreat" when everybody plays the instrumental part at once (including the bagpipes!) - it's like a musical wrestling match.

I don't know what radio station you listen to, but I don't hear this in any of the new or old country that I hear. Every instrument takes there turn at fills and do not "wrestle" with each other. Please give a current example of a steel (or other instrument) being played over the vocalist that didn't fit. I'm sure there are some poorly produced records out, but I have not heard them.

One example I will give where the steel plays over (actually behind) the vocalist is "The Fireman" by George Strait. In the first verse, the steel player (Paul Franklin I think) in the last half of the verse keeps playing licks behind the vocals (to me the best part of the song). This type of backup goes way back to early country, probably even more than today.

If I was watching a band where all the backing instruments always just played the exact melody of the song for their breaks and fills, I would probably leave after a dozen songs. The same holds true for the players who can't play the melody when the song is served best by that approach. Not interested in seeing a country "jam band". There is a time when you should stick to the melody and times when you can just stray a little or put something completely original in there.

Dave Mudgett said "know your audience". This saying should be emblazened into every musicians mind. In fact, it should be silkscreened on every fretboard. Remember that your audience is not only the crowd, but also your bandmates. Play stuff that they will like to hear (or require you to play).

[Donny Hinson]

"That new singer, Rowdy Bighat has a pedal steel player!"

"Who is he?"

"I don't know, but he lays out really well."

"Cool!!! I can't wait to SEE him."

[James Morehead]

To me, "play the melody" is where you start, not where you finish. In other words, the melody of a song is where you build your solo-ing from. How far you take it away from the melody depends on your situation at the time. Just my opinion.

[Peter Dollard]

I think that the earlier country melodies(fifties- sixties) may have derived more from folk songs than the current crop of "country" songs that we are hearing. By their melodic construction the older songs allowed for a more upfront melodic steel presentation.

Now consider the 1982 song "Highway Forty Blues"; the changes are so quick it would be almost Laurence Welk like to try and play the melody and nothing but the melody all the way through. It would sound musically straightjacketed(I suppose I can say that). So in the case of Highway Forty Blues you hear implied parts of the melody surrounded by great individual hot licks. A song which allows some melody but offers the players a chance to strut their stuff. This confluence is what good song writing is all about. There will always be "picking" songs just as there will always be singers songs.

[Willis Vanderberg]

For those who don't know, Jerry Johnston is a fine musician and a great singer. I have had the priviledge of working with him .He has that wonderful phrasing and the easy style that make you want to play as tastefully as possible.
I do notice in western swing that the first time through the melody is pretty clear. After that it kind of turns into a jam thing. A lot of times if I walk in at the middle of the song I don't recognize the name at all. We now have a little saying that goes " They are playng that song again ". As in , you can't figure out the melody, thus the name of the song either. I think it is inherent in my generation, who grew up Byrd, Wiggins,Davis,Roberts,to be melody consious.
This is my opinion and it is very slanted....

Old Bud

[Carroll Hale]

as in most situations....music or others..
....."Quality is better than Quantity"......

...jmho......

[Buck Grantham]

Some players take the chart and just stay in the correct chord progression. To me that's not playing the song. I do like the Western swingers some time and start off with the molody verse and chorus then let the other lead players adlib their parts then wind the song up with the melody. A lot of western swing is like that and it works for them.

[Mike Poholsky]

I think sometimes it depends on what you are being called on to do. I had mentioned the Dire Straits record "On Every Street" on another thread. I gave it a listen, cause I hadn't heard it in awhile. Its the first time I heard Paul Franklin and Mark Knopfler together('91 ?). I started thinking about this thread while I was listening. Although Paul takes some great solos, The Bug in particular, he spends quite a bit of time adding flavor, character and a "sound" to the record. There are songs he doesn't solo on, but he is there with different tones and subtle passages. Not necessarily the melody. Very nicely done. IMO

[basilh]

Two outstanding players from the UK contributed to this thread and were not even acknowledged let alone responded to ?

Why is that, are they persona non grata or just perceived as a threat..to the entrenched forum "Guru's" ?

Why on earth would you all ignore David Hartley's request for some info

and Remember that 'Help me make it through the night' with a really great C6th break in, I think it must have been Emmons? I can remember the steel lead break but not who's version it was? Anyway, that never followed a melody, but what a great break in a slow song. Someone please tell me which version I am thinking of ?

A little reciprocation is in order considering how much David has entertained you with his YouTube offerings..

[Richard Sinkler]

Maybe no one who has visited this thread knows the answer.

[basilh]

Even so Richard, There still SHOULD be some acknowledgment of both of their posts.

[Tony Prior]

My opinion here is that we are getting way off track on this thread.

the question is regarding playing melody or just playing all the fast licks you know. Or perhaps somewhere in between.

To me the answer is pretty simple, if the tune calls for jamming or pulling out all the stops, by all means, if you can, DO IT.

But if the song calls for gentle phrasing, staying close to the melody or perhaps deliberate melody, DO IT.

here's the problem the way I see it, and this is no different for a Guitar player or keyboard player etc..

If you are not really familiar with your Instrument and can't play the melody, then you don't have that option available to you and you will be forced to play outside. Then the next song is called and you play outside again, then the next song etc and pretty soon after about the 5th or 6th song you may be out of OUTSIDE phrases. You have played all of the Speed Pickin you know , all of the fancy chord phrases etc, ..

now what ? We still have 3 and a half sets to go....


Remember the old joke..
"How do you know when a Guitar player has entered the room"???

"the Guitar player on stage plays all his best licks "...


We are supposed to play our Instruments as part of the song. If that means fast phrases, close to the melody add-lib or deliberate melody, then it seems to me thats what we should do.


I was in Nville a few weeks ago over a few days period. I had a chance to see and hear several bands with players and I don't know who they were. Some were right there in the song, others were playing so far away from the basic traditional song that it was a major distraction, at least to me. All very fine players, but not all playing very fine.


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