Vintage Instruments-Steels etc.-Baby Boomer fixation only?

[Gerald Ross]

In another post I posed the question "should I sell my Bakelite Rick?". The overwhelming response was "NO!, it's still going up in value".

So what do you all think? This fixation with old instruments... is it a Baby Boomer phenomena only? Will there be enough 20-40 year olds when the boomers are in their 70's and 80's to buy these instruments at high prices?

Thoughts?

[Ken Pippus]

It's interesting to note that the prices of "classic" '60's stratocasters have already gone down significantly, and I believe the same is true for prewar Mastertone banjos. Although I'm not sure that this applies to lap steels, many of the best instruments ever manufactured are being produced right now: Collings guitars, Huber banjos, any number of electric solid bodies.

The original vintage frenzy was prompted in large part by the fact that nearly any instrument manufactured in the United States during the mid 1970's was an embarassment to the history of the manufacturer: Fender, Gibson, Martin, it really didn't matter. Now the same POS three bolt Stratocaster which drove everybody to the fifties and sixties model is bringing "Vintage Collectible" bux.

I guess my takehome message is that I plan to keep my Silver Hawaiian because they aren't making any more, it sounds great, and I like it. If I wanted to improve my chances of an early retirement, I'd sell the hummer, take the profit I've already made, and stick it in an indexed fund.

YMMV

[Alan Kirk]

When the economy falters, the price of luxury items goes down.

The younger generation is very hip to "vintage" instruments. They crave them as much as us old guys.

[Rick Alexander]

An excellent question Gerald.
I think that probably when we are in our 80s (I should live so long) that the guys who are now in their 30s and 40s (is that the "me" generation?) will be the ones to covet these classic instruments. They will be in their 50s and 60s and presumably have the wherewithal to acquire vintage instruments.
I also believe that it's our sacred duty to preserve these instruments - and also the musical heritage associated with them.
That means not only caring for them while we possess them, but also being highly selective about who we pass them on to.
Most of these instruments are over 50 years old, and could quite possibly continue to function for centuries - as long as their caretakers take care . .

[Mark Mansueto]

I'm one of those guys that has a hard time parting with gear so I still have stuff from when I was a teen. What's interesting to me is that I'm at an age where most if not all of it is considered collectable whether it's a pedal or guitar or whatever. The BR9 I have was given to me by a guy in 1980 because he just didn't want it! A couple years ago I needed to clear some space so I had to make a hard decision on where to draw the line about what to sell. It was very hard but I made some good money and I still have enough gear to keep me happy.

[Mark Lynott]

IMHO I don't think the vintage instrument market is exclusively a baby boomer phenom, but it sure is predominantly so, just look at the artists on the cover of Vintage Guitar magazine, also the (buying) customers of the big vintage dealers, tell me I'm wrong but looks to me like the mainstay of the market are boomers. When time to retire to a manageable dwelling and fixed income I do see boomers selling off enough of their collections to make a noticeable increase in supply, the question is will younger players have the same demand for all the vintage gear that boomers have?

I don't think a classic like a Rickenbacher bakelite or frypan steel will ever lose the vintage price tag, though right now may not be the best selling time. They're well known and sought after even by folks that don't know a lap steel from a lap dance

[Jim Mitchell]

So I guess I should pack my HARLIN BROTHERS 1950 ish
6 string 4 pedal MULTI KORD back in the case and keep it safe

And play my new RONDO

[James Mayer]

I'm 32 and don't know the name of my generation.

I wanted a Stringmaster more than anything. Why? Because my favorite steeler plays one. I'm simply not willing to spend that kind of dough on something that I would be afraid to take out of the house.

Now, I'm very happy with my Fouke Industrial steels. I bought my first one, with custom mods, for $375 (2005?). Now, the base price for the same model is $550. It's also indestructible with replacement parts that are readily available. This cured my need for an overpriced vintage instrument.

I played a Sierra steel($$$$!) at the nearby factory. It was great, but comparable to what I already have.

The new Duesenberg with the sliding capo, dual pickups, and benders looks interesting. That may be my next purchase, if they can keep the price somewhat reasonable. Probably wishful thinking.

[Michael Papenburg]

While I do own a few modern instruments, I keep coming back to my vintage pieces. While some of them have issues, I prefer the tone of my older lap steels - especially my National Dynamic and my Supro Comet. I find that my newer ones sound more focused and the older ones are richer and more open sounding. YMMV.

While the prices of certain lap steels have definitely gone up, they are still relatively inexpensive compared to most vintage pieces. I think that there will always be a fascination with the past so there will always be a market for vintage instruments. That being said, I feel that the market for vintage guitars is ridiculous. When the value of some instruments rival the price of high end sports cars you know something is wrong. Plus, I believe that an instrument should be played. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a 50s Tele to a gig considering it's current market value.

BTW, I'm in my early 40s so I'm in between the boomers and the "me" generation.

[Alan Kirk]

The only reason the younger folk don't buy as many vintage instruments as us older guys is that the young ones don't have as much money as we do. I've met plenty of younger players who want vintage instruments but can't afford them.

[Mike Neer]

I've been lucky enough to have owned most of the guitars I've ever wanted, but after selling most of them, I've realized that I can do without them. There are certain instruments I swore I'd never sell, such as my Tricones and my Frying Pan and Rickenbacher B6 and Stringmasters, etc, but it's only a twinge of regret that quickly disppears, much like that of the thought of old flames. The upside is that I've used the some of the money to purchase instruments to take me into the next phases of my career.

The reality for me is, as a working/struggling musician and father of 3, sometimes I have to make tough choices. Playing steel guitar was not one of the wisest career choices I've made, especially in this locale. I make a helluva lot more money singing, and for that I have a good, vintage set of pipes which I will never sell.

[Charley Wilder]

Gerald, an old time wheeler-dealer once told me something I've never forgotten; There is always a market for quality! And certainly your Rick is quality!!

[Tom Zielinski]

I finally got a Rick Bakelite a month or so ago. It took me about 3 months worth of gigs to save up for it. It is the one guitar I will never sell. As long as musicians like good tone, they will maintain value.

I am in my mid 30s, I am not sure what our generation is called---I think at one time some were called "grunge" or "slackers". Whatever.

I am pretty sure the 19-25 year olds now are the "me" generation. A lot of my students seem to think they have entitlement to high paying jobs and a car. I know a few that are 25 and never even had a job.

[Bill Creller]

The old instruments do have their drawbacks alright. It's maybe how much you will put up with to keep using them, in the case of Rickenbackers. Like mentioned above though, bakelite is history, and can't be replaced or made, in this country at least.
Rick Aiello's frypans are filling a void of the old scarce early Rick frypans, but bakelite is done.
Maybe some new material will be developed to make lap steels from (?)

[Alan Brookes]

All the baby boomers will be retiring simultaneously. They'll try to sell their family homes to pay off the mortgages, student loans for their kids, etc., but all those properties going on the market simultaneously will push down the prices. A lot of old instruments will end up being repossessed by banks and finance companies. There won't be much cash left for luxuries, and as the baby boomers die off all their memorabelia will end up on the market at knock-down prices.

[Keith Cordell]

There is a type of Bakelite being produced in Dallas, TX as we speak. It is used for institutional dishware and trays; I worked there briefly in the 80's, but don't ask me the name of the place- that part of my memory was wiped clean about a year ago. It was an extremely dangerous job, with enormous fire risk. I am sure they could produce something pretty close, but just to get a mold made for them was incredibly spendy.

[Doug Beaumier]

This fixation with old instruments... is it a Baby Boomer phenomena only?

That is one theory among vintage guitar dealers. Some dealers feel that the kids of today won't care about 1960's tube amps, or the 1950's and 60's guitars that we grew up lusting after. They will want the stuff that they are playing today. I'm not so sure about that. I think the 1950-60s guitars and amps will always be sought-after, although the prices will level off. As long as Fender Co., Gibson Co., and Rickenbacker Co. are still in business, and their instruments are in music stores and on stages, future generations will be hot after vintage Fend-Gibs-Ricks IMHO.

As far as Steel Guitars... I don't mean to be negative, but steel guitar values will Never rival the crazy prices of vintage guitars. Not even close. The market is completely different. The demand for steels is miniscule compared to the demand for guitars. I don't see that changing in future generations. $2500 will buy you almost any production vintage non-pedal steel guitar you want (Stringmaster, Rick, Gibson, etc,). But if you want a 1950's or 60's Strat, Les Paul, or Tele... multiply that $2500 times 10 or 20. Up to $300K in some cases. I know a dealer who recently paid $275,000 for a 1959 Les Paul sunburst. Fortunately for us... old lap steels are still reasonably priced, and a lot more fun to play!

[Matt Kidney]

I'm a big fan of vintage stuff, I like the worn in look and feel. However as I am very new to lapsteel I didn't want to buy a dog or something that needed a lot of setting up, so I bought the next coolest thing a Fouke.

I'm 34 and I think are generation are called 'In Denial'

[Charley Wilder]

I have to keep in mind that it wasn't that many years ago that I was worried about a lot of you guys growing up with no values. Would you young squirts understand quality in music and musical instruments. When I went through my vintage phase back in the 70's I wondered everytime I bought an old instrument if the young punks of "today" would even have clue? Would I be able to resell my instruments for a profit some day? And a good lot of us weren't very sharp back then either! You could buy any lap steel you could find for about fifty bucks or less because nobody wanted them. And I was one of the few people around who actually played one and still never bought one for later value! Duh! And bear in mind a lot of them were "vintage" even back then. So I don't worry much about this generation. There is probably more teenagers and early 20's types playing lap steel today than there ever!!

[Mark Eaton]

Vintage vibe and mojo is great and all.

But it has also become fashionable to bash the contemporary version of a hallowed product.

Like a new Les Paul. I always get the feeling when someone looks down their nose with a scowl at a new Les Paul that they are coming across with an air of superiority, as if they are above the riff raff and have a discerning eye and ear that is beyond the comprehension of the unwashed masses.

A guy in my band bought a new Les Paul Standard with a gorgeous sunburst finish last year, about $2200. The thing looks and sounds wonderful. This guy also has a very clean 1963 Fender Jazzmaster, which he has owned since he was about 14. The Jazzmaster never comes to band rehearsal anymore. In the back of my mind, I hear the little voice that says "the really knowledgeable folks would tell you that this new Les Paul sucks." Sorry - I don't get it.

Even if I had the money to play the game, I think I would do my best to avoid chasing the vintage vibe. And because the money, in some cases, has gotten so ridiculous, I'm almost glad that I have no chance to even think about participating.

[Gerald Ross]

I love vintage instruments and have a bunch of them. I have vintage steels both electric and acoustic. I also have a few vintage acoustic guitars. Yes there is something amazing about their sounds and their looks. 75 year old aged wood sounds good, no doubt about it.

But remember, a guitar or musical instrument is a mechanical device. Parts need to be maintained. And many times even if maintenance has been 100% through the years they still develop problems.

This past Christmas I got a brand-spanking new Taylor acoustic guitar from my family as a gift. Guess what? The thing is a pleasure to look at, play and hear. It stays and plays in tune for the entire length of the neck. The truss rod hasn't been cranked to the max to correct years of abuse and lack of humidity. The frets are positioned and placed with mathematical precision. The action is low and fast.




We are in a golden age of instrument building right now. The "hippie" guitar builders of the 1970's and 80's have perfected their craft and are turning out some amazing work.

[Mark Eaton]

There are a lot of crappy old Martin guitars in existence that were not maintained well. You are right Gerald, these things need to be maintained.

If a bottle of 1948 Chateau Margaux has not been cellared properly, then after popping the cork it might prove undrinkable.

[Gerald Ross]

Especially with guitars there is a lot of fantasy involved with the owning and playing of vintage models.

A beat up old acoustic guitar evokes images of hopping freight trains or thumbing around the country with just your knapsack, guitar and the hopes of the next town just down the road and around the bend.

It's all fantasy and if you want that and it helps you get into a certain psychological space, well fine, you're not hurting anyone.

I see it a lot with singer-songwriter types. Many of them are not that great on their instruments. Their main focus is the lyric and their vocals. So the road-worn guitar adds a bit to their stage persona.

[Alan Kirk]

I always get the feeling when someone looks down their nose with a scowl at a new Les Paul that they are coming across with an air of superiority, as if they are above the riff raff and have a discerning eye and ear that is beyond the comprehension of the unwashed masses.

People who judge musicians on the look of their instrument rather than on how they sound on that instrument aren't real musicians.

[Keith Cordell]

A lot of guys like me, who don't have the dough to buy a good vintage guitar, have taken up finding good instruments that have not become sought after. I play a number of instruments that a guitar snob would laugh at, but they sound great and play like I want them to. Take, for example, my SD Curlee guitar. An Ebay average would be about $150. I got mine for $50; Don Dunlavey set it up and repaired a couple of issues and now it is one of the most playable, strong and toneful instruments I have ever owned. Danelectro reissues can be great with a little lovin', and sound unbelievable. I have two, one a vintage U1. My lap steel is a neck from a quad stringmaster that noone but me seems to want, but it sounds BIG even though it's ugly!

I'd be afraid to take a $20,000 guitar to a jam or show, but the Curlee, besides the loss of a great sounding instrument, wouldn't ruin my week if it were stolen or knocked over and broken. I love that stuff but it's off the menu for me.