how's this grab ya?

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 21 Feb 2008 5:22 am

I have been using my Peterson VII and just for kicks, I tried checking two other tuners to it. Now I've got three tuners and none of them agree with each other. Anyone else run into this?

Geo

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 21 Feb 2008 5:59 am

I've noticed that I get different results with my Stroboflip on batteries than I do with it on AC power. Also if I pick a string very hard it goes sharp on the tuner then goes flat as it settles down. The manual says to pick the strings very lightly when tuning and now I know why. Seems there is an art to know how to get the best out of whatever tuner you are using and what settings to use. The accoustic guitar setting leaves all 3 of my flat tops way out of tune so I use the electric guitar tuner setting for them with good results.

Given all this, I'm not surprised that different tuners give you different results.

Greg

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 21 Feb 2008 7:19 am

My Korg tuners all agree with each other.

Also I have an "A" tuning fork with which I check the tuners every now and then.
So far, It gives me a solid "A" on each tuner.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 21 Feb 2008 7:47 am

When tuning either my steel or guitar I have found that using my thumb (no pick) seems to work best for me without the result that Greg has mentioned in his post.

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 21 Feb 2008 8:47 am

I have a Peterson 490ST strobe tuner (with the actual rotating strobe disc) and my VSII is dead on with the 490ST.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 21 Feb 2008 12:14 pm

Seems like you should pick the way you play. Adopting a unique picking style just for tuning seems to put the cart before the horse. Both my Boss tuner and the tuner in my POD go a little sharp on the attack and then settle back flatter, especially on the low strings. But I just live with that and try to set the tuning in between. As long as you do all the strings the same way, and check by ear, the guitar should be in tune with itself. That small deviation is only a cent or two, so it will have a negligible effect on being in tune with standard pitch.

How much difference in cents is there between the different tuners? If it is only fractions of a cent, it has no practical meaning, except that the manufacturer's claim of 0.1 cent accuracy is a joke.

Here's another problem. If you tune the strings perfectly open at the nut, what happens when you put the bar on the 8th or 10th fret? When I do that, the low strings on my S12U go noticeably sharp because of bar pressure. I only tune roughly with the tuner on the open strings. Then I put the bar at the 8th fret and fine tune by ear. If I then look at the tuner on the open strings, I see that I need to tune the lowest strings a little flat when tuning open at the nut. Compared to that kind of real tuning problem that can be heard clearly, the tiny unhearable differences between tuners or because of the pick attack don't seem worth worrying about to me.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 21 Feb 2008 1:19 pm

It has always been a touring rule when I'm out to tune every instrument on the stage with the same tuner. Even high end tuners can be a bit off. Electronics should be ahead of that issue but I still find that if you tune 3 instruments on 3 tuners you will sound like a well executed fart on stage.

John Norris · Post by **John Norris** » 21 Feb 2008 3:04 pm

Keith,

I've noticed that I get different results with my Stroboflip on batteries than I do with it on AC power.

There is no difference in accuracy in either battery or a/c mode.

Also if I pick a string very hard it goes sharp on the tuner then goes flat as it settles down. The manual says to pick the strings very lightly when tuning and now I know why.

It will go sharp because it is mirroring exactly what the string is doing when picked hard.

The accoustic guitar setting leaves all 3 of my flat tops way out of tune so I use the electric guitar tuner setting for them with good results.

Two very well known acoustic players came up with the acoustic setting (James T & Ben H), its an alternative temperament which is identical on every Peterson tuner, thats nothing to do with the accuracy from tuner to tuner (as long as its a Peterson).
It may not suit your guitars, but thats another subject, people use it to counteract the extra string deflection when moving a capo around without retuning.

How much difference in cents is there between the different tuners? If it is only fractions of a cent, it has no practical meaning, except that the manufacturer's claim of 0.1 cent accuracy is a joke.

The actual tuning accuracy is on average from +/-2 cents on the older needle tuners from the early 80s to up to +/-6 cents on the modern digital LED tuners (yes, they didn't just get cheaper, they got less accurate!).
Ours are accurate to 0.1 cent, no joke, David

, you can also adjust them by that amount and see the difference.
I've read posts claiming that up to 5 cents can't be heard, I would beg to differ.
Try tuning a fiddler's violin to Equal temperament, hand it to him, watch him try it and watch him re-tune the imperfect 5ths to perfect, the difference is 1.9 cents.

Happy tuning!

John Norris

Curtis Boatright · Post by **Curtis Boatright** » 21 Feb 2008 3:58 pm

Its strange that this topic came up.
I thought my guitar was going out of tune from day to day.each day when i sat down to play i was finding that the strob II showed my guitar to be out of tune(not way out but out just the same)I have been testing my stob II to my old korg and my boss tuner each day for a week and have found the korg and the boss tuners agree with each other but the strob II to be unstable.i tried the strob II with new batteries and with the wall power source with no noticable inprovement.
I wounder if others have done this type of testng? and what their results were?

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 21 Feb 2008 4:34 pm

John Norris wrote:I've read posts claiming that up to 5 cents can't be heard, I would beg to differ.
Try tuning a fiddler's violin to Equal temperament, hand it to him, watch him try it and watch him re-tune the imperfect 5ths to perfect, the difference is 1.9 cents.

Happy tuning!

John Norris

John is absolutely correct about that. For years I just got an A reference off the tuner and went from there. That is, until I got my Stroboflip.

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 21 Feb 2008 5:19 pm

You know, my 25 year old Korg has always been on the money. Never let me down. Watch it break tomorrow $:\$

John Norris · Post by **John Norris** » 21 Feb 2008 8:55 pm

I thought my guitar was going out of tune from day to day.each day when i sat down to play i was finding that the strob II showed my guitar to be out of tune(not way out but out just the same)

Due to a long forgotten art called called tuner accuracy we can show that, from day to day your steel will vary due to temperature, age of string etc.
Your other tuners don't have the accuracy to show those deviations (ever drive a car with steering wheel play?).
We have been making tuners since the 1940s and to us, a tuner is not an "accessory", it's all we do.
By the way, 2008 is our 60th anniversary

!

John Norris

Russ Little · Post by **Russ Little** » 21 Feb 2008 9:08 pm

Quote:
How much difference in cents is there between the different tuners? If it is only fractions of a cent, it has no practical meaning, except that the manufacturer's claim of 0.1 cent accuracy is a joke.

The last I knew the most precision electronic
components are rated at 5% how can anything get
0.1 percent accuracy with those ratings?
Us country boys want to Know

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Feb 2008 9:12 pm

John Norris wrote:Keith,
I've noticed that I get different results with my Stroboflip on batteries than I do with it on AC power.
There is no difference in accuracy in either battery or a/c mode.

Well, John, Keith related his personal observation to the contrary, so a flat denial is not terribly helpful. Perhaps it is the case that the accuracy is the same with a full battery but gets dicey if the battery is weak?

John Norris · Post by **John Norris** » 21 Feb 2008 9:16 pm

The last I knew the most precision electronic
components are rated at 5% how can anything get
0.1 percent accuracy with those ratings?
Us country boys want to Know

If that was the case, I doubt if we would have shot that sattelite out of the sky today...

John Norris

John Norris · Post by **John Norris** » 21 Feb 2008 9:17 pm

Perhaps it is the case that the accuracy is the same with a full battery but gets dicey if the battery is weak?

It actually only makes a difference if the battery is driving a mechanical component like a needle. If the battery gets weak on one of our tuners, the display just gets fainter, it has no bearing on the accuracy.

John Norris

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Feb 2008 9:31 pm

Okay, so I guessed wrong. At least I'm guessing! Would you care to join me in trying to understand a Forumite's observation while using your product, or are you content to just deny his experience?

John Norris · Post by **John Norris** » 21 Feb 2008 9:48 pm

Would you care to join me in trying to understand a Forumite's observation while using your product, or are you content to just deny his experience?

Hi Jim!
We care so much that we have our own unique forum and Help Desk for anyone with problems or questions

. I simply answered a flat statement with an equally flat statement, given the lack of any details, just putting the record straight.
Posts on forums have the uncanny effect of becoming "truth" if not countered by an objective point of view.

Our forum:
http://www.petersontuners.com/forum

Our Help Desk:
http://www.petersontuners.com/helpdesk

You don't have to be a Peterson owner to make use of these facilities.

John Norris

Russ Little · Post by **Russ Little** » 21 Feb 2008 10:33 pm

Quote:
The last I knew the most precision electronic
components are rated at 5% how can anything get
0.1 percent accuracy with those ratings?
Us country boys want to Know

If that was the case, I doubt if we would have shot that sattelite out of the sky today...

John Norris

John,
Thats why they had two backups
some times even I get lucky

John Norris · Post by **John Norris** » 22 Feb 2008 7:33 am

John,
Thats why they had two backups
some times even I get lucky

Curtis Boatright · Post by **Curtis Boatright** » 22 Feb 2008 8:12 am

Hi John,
This will be my last comment on my tunner testing.
It was not my intention to join in on a range war,i simply responded to a post that commented on an issue that i have experienced hopping to hear a possible fix. I have no intention of not using or for that matter getting rid of my VSII.I did however dig out my 440 tuning fork and it seems to be defective also.my boss and my korg are equally defective because they read 440.
Multiple test events resulted with the following,
all three units were tested at the same time,the korg and boss were consitant and the VSII had multiple readings some dead on others not.Your company has built a quality product for many years. I used a conn strob tunner untill i could afford a perterson and was pleased with its performance for many years(i still own it and have it stored at Church ,it is rather large to tote around)now i have the VSII that i use.
note:i get the same results testing it with my six string also.

Thanks for your comments,
CURTIS BOATRIGHT =RETIRED ENG.

John Norris · Post by **John Norris** » 22 Feb 2008 9:01 am

Hi Curtis,

Multiple test events resulted with the following,
all three units were tested at the same time,the korg and boss were consitant and the VSII had multiple readings some dead on others not.

I can understand why you think that the VS-II is the odd man out, it is, because of its resolution.
Try this test, connect the input jack of your VS-II with the input jack of either of your other tuners.
The VS-II will put an audio tone into the other tuner.
Now adjust the cent control on the VS-II and see how long it takes for the other tuner to move away from the "green light".
The VS-II will track every variation in pitch in real time, it has no way to be inconsistent, because its tied to the signal as it comes in showing the phase difference.
The others do a sample of the signal and display a rough average.

John Norris

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 23 Feb 2008 6:04 am

I'd like to thank Mr. John Norris for taking the time to become involved in this thread and through his replies, it helped solve my "mysterious problem".

I feel that when the people involved in the production of products that we, as steel guitar players use, come on The Steel Guitar Forum and explain in terms "some of us senior" players need.

Thank you all for your input.

Regards,
Geo

Curtis Boatright · Post by **Curtis Boatright** » 23 Feb 2008 7:14 am

DITTO George,

THESE GUYS SOME TIMES TAKE A BEATING.
LETS CALL THEM THE EVEREADY GUYS they take a licken and keep on ticking.
Hats off to all that have gone that extra mile to help us out.

WARMEST THANKS FROM
CURTIS & LAURA BOATRIGHT

GOD BLESS ALL

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 23 Feb 2008 11:44 am

My thanks too, John. Your comments helped me to understand my Stroboflip better, so now it will benefit me even more. Great product! I think it's great when manufacturers care about the people who use their products and provide support. That's a win/win deal.

Best Regards,