Shobud Fingertips and Permanents----got a picture??

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Feb 2008 2:06 pm

James, I really don't know the year of my guitar. I was assuming it was earlier than yours. What kinda rollers does yours have? Notice on mine that the hole for the 5th tuner is just drilled closer to the end of the keyhead. And you can see that the spaces between the tuners is not equal!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 14 Feb 2008 2:19 pm

Looks like my '67 fingertip has gauged steel rollers, John.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Feb 2008 2:26 pm

If you compare yours and mine (!), the string posts on my tuners are longer, by about 1/4". I'll bet that's why the holes were drilled offset in mine. The tuners, though still Grover Sta-Tites, are different.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Feb 2008 2:40 pm

Notice the differences in the castings. Quite different. Your guitar's keyhead looks like the one on the right. That keyhead is from a 1967 Shobud/Baldwin. The keyheads on my F-tip are much more similar to the ones on a Permanent.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Feb 2008 3:21 pm

James, just curious. My guitar measures 34 5/16" from the outside edge of one endplate to the other. Is yours the same?

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 14 Feb 2008 3:33 pm

Mine's in TEXAS at Ricky's right now. So, to answer your question: Yes, mine is now bigger.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Feb 2008 3:39 pm

But! But! I've got the longest knee lever you've ever seen! 10". I can't figure out why it's so long! It's a freak of nature!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 14 Feb 2008 4:00 pm

Hey Hey now, let's not turn this into a "swingin' lever contest"!! HA!!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Feb 2008 4:04 pm

BWAAA! I'm thinkin' of pingin' Ricky to join in. I'm sure his knowledge would be appreciated!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 15 Feb 2008 8:19 am

Erv, "This picture is from a brochure I received from Sho~Bud"
I just looked at that pic again, and noticed that it's a Permanent!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 15 Feb 2008 8:34 am

John,
I think you're right.
Sho~Bud maybe sent me an old brochure during the transition period from permanent to fingertip.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 15 Feb 2008 8:55 am

Look at the axle the fingers ride on. I personally believe that's a BIG part of the reason the fingertips had such a wonderful rich signature tone. What do ya'll think??

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 16 Feb 2008 10:35 am

James, you are probably right! I hadn't really considered that, as I haven't started taking mine apart yet. The axles in my guitar are 5/8" diameter, and look to be hard-chromed. That means that the holes in the fingers are big, so less aluminum mass in touch with the steel axle.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 16 Feb 2008 11:50 am

May I please ask you guys about a Marlen guitar I just picked up and am tweaking on. After looking at these pictures, the changer design on the Marlen is almost identical. Did Marlen use a copy of this Bud fingertip design for a time. I mean everything on the changer is virtually the same. Thanks for the info. It will help me get the changer working as well as it can.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 16 Feb 2008 2:10 pm

Hey Bill! Post some pics. I'm curious to see your Marlen. I have posted on some of the "Identify this guitar" threads that some Marlens were virtually identical to Fingertips. I haven't ripped into mine yet, as I'm just starting to work on an old Permanent. But James can probably answer questions. Some other posters might help also.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 16 Feb 2008 4:15 pm

Bill, really, the best one to answer about Marlens is Ricky Davis. But I think there are a few Marlen owners out there that have these old changers, and they might respond if you started a thread. I had a about a '75 once(pictured below), but I slept since then, and can't remember a whole lot about it. I believe I can find the tuning instructions Ricky drew up for me, but they might not apply to yours at all. As you can see, THIS particular guitar's changer is pretty different than the fingertips pictured above, but then again, this is circa '75-'76 ish, too. This beautiful guitar now lives near Houston, TX.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 16 Feb 2008 9:39 pm

James. My changer is not like the 75 you have pictured. It is almost Identical to the Bud. If I take a pic of the changer taken apart will you be able to ID it??? I can show all the parts to it. I will try to do that tomorrow afternoon or evening between my Church jobs.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 16 Feb 2008 9:43 pm

Bill, I'm afraid I know little of the Marlens other than what I've shown. Again, Ricky Davis is the one who can help you more. Sorry, I'm not much help here.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Feb 2008 5:47 am

Bill, look at the cut-away diagram that I posted on page one. It's very helpful in understanding this style of guitar. I know Marlen made copies, as did a couple others. At the time, the Fingertip was the most technically advanced guitar. Post some pics!

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 17 Feb 2008 9:51 am

The Marlen "pull release" finger design and movability; is completely different from the Sho-bud Fingertip finger and movability.
The fingertip is all pull...you pull to raise and pull to lower; as the marlen is a single piece finger; you pull to raise and release against idle tension to lower.
Ricky

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Feb 2008 10:25 am

Thanks Ricky! I've never seen an old Marlen, but in pics, they do look outwardly similar to an F-tip.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 17 Feb 2008 10:57 am

Ricky Davis wrote:The Marlen "pull release" finger design and movability; is completely different from the Sho-bud Fingertip finger and movability.
The fingertip is all pull...you pull to raise and pull to lower; as the marlen is a single piece finger; you pull to raise and release against idle tension to lower.
Ricky

Ricky. Have a look at these parts from a guitar I have that is taken apart for cleaning. I sort of put the changer shafts back in just to show you how it is made and I put one of the cams in to show you. These cams/fingers pivot in the center and are not one piece. You can see a couple of other cams also and the pocket for the pickup and the keyhead which has the same offset gears and some body pics. Is this Sho Bud or Marlen? If it is Marlen, then it is pretty close to the same as the Bud. Please let me know what you think.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Feb 2008 12:01 pm

Yeah. Bill! This guitar is like a couple I've seen in "Help identify this steel" threads.
Keyhead is not Shobud. No "gumby" The endplate castings are so similar, but there are some differences. At least to my Fingertip. The old Shobuds I have, have a quarter-round between the upper and lower "decks." And the endplates also have this 1/4 round. I just plain don't know, and will defer to Ricky. Do you have any pics of the guitar when it was still assembled?

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 17 Feb 2008 1:42 pm

John Billings wrote: Do you have any pics of the guitar when it was still assembled?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Feb 2008 1:46 pm

Well Bill, that's the guitar from one o' them threads I was talkin' about. Do you have the link to it?

The Steel Guitar Forum

Shobud Fingertips and Permanents----got a picture??

Did Marlen make a copy of this changer design??