How I got here. Part 2 ( decisions, decisions) UPDATED!!!

[Tim Carlson]

PLEASE SCROLL DOWN FOR BUILD/FIX UPDATES!!!

When I first started looking at lap steels, I looked to eBay. I then imediately started looking for hard info regarding quality beginner instruments, which led me here. In hindsight, I wish I would've gone with my gut (and the general consensus) and got the Rondo 6 string lap-steel. Nooo. Not me. I had to follow my heart and ended up with a less-than-ideal (albiet somewhat unique)Tennessee 6 string tele/8 string lap steel double neck.

The nut was broken on arrival, and the bridge...I won't go into that right now.
There are quite a few things I'd like to do to this hunk of...wood,(besides burn it) but I've got to get it playable, first.
I've ordered string ferrules to replace the plastic ones on the front of the guitar, and new ones for the back of the guitar where there are none. 2 new sets of string from this forum are on the way, as well.
I plan on replacing the original nut with some hand slotted "L" bracket aluminum, as some of you have done.
I'd like to use a slotted bridge roller, as seen on the GeorgeBoards Lap-steels, but I can't seem to find anything like it available for purchase.
Would it be better for me to find an adjustable bridge, to help with proper set-up? The bridge that came with the guitar was held down by string pressure alone. Coming from the electric guitar world, that seems so wrong. (I'm a Fender guy, but love me a good Epiphone every now and then)
Would a "perched" bridge roller be better off not solidly mounted so that basic intonation can be adjusted? I have the mechanical skills to do whichever is necessary, but I'm lacking a bit in knowledge of what the most useful set-up would be for a beginner.

[basilh]

"perched" bridge roller be better off not solidly mounted so that basic intonation can be adjusted

The bridge has to be at the exact point double the nut to 12th fret distance..There is NO convention for staggering the individual bridge pieces as on a regular guitar.
The reason they are adjustable on a regular guitar is that the different thickness of strings PULLED down to the fret require a SLIGHTLY different scale length..NO such thing is required on a Steel Guitar..
Any you see that have 'Strat' style bridges are done purely for economical reasons.

[Bob Blair]

Shades of Junior Brown! I've never seen or heard of one of these - I wonder if it was a one-off or whether there are a few of them kicking around (not very many I imagine). Does anyone know anything about them? I assume it is a knock-off of Junior's "Guit-steel". Tim, how does the tele part of this monster play?

[Alan Brookes]

Manufacturers often cut costs by using standard guitar parts on lap steels, especially on budget models, and the most prolific use is of a movable bridge. As Basil pointed out, there is absolutely no reason to have a movable bridge or movable bridge pieces, on a lap steel. Ironically, the manufacturers could actually save money by just using a piece of L-bar as they usually do with the nut.

[Tim Carlson]

Basilh, thank you for clearing that up. I had that idea, but wanted to make sure before I started screwing things to the body.

Bob, that's exactly what I was thinking!(though I couldn't remember his name) These guitars are few and far between, only because it is a VERY poorly made instrument. I got it off of ebay for under $300 shipped, with the case. "Tropicalmoonmusic" is the ebay store that sells them. They've got numerous "odd-ball" double, tripple, and quad-neck type instruments.
I'll probably have another $100 into it just to make it playable, which is why I said "in hindsight..." about the Rondo 6 string. The Tele portion is in need of a good set-up before making a good judgement of it, but for such a cheap instrument, it's not that bad, as is. If it turns out that the fretwork is terrible, I'm thinking of getting a solid maple baritone Warmoth neck, for that Bass VI or Bajo Sexto type sound. If I do get a new neck for it, I might try a Hipshot bridge, as well.
Thank you all for your replies.

[Bob Blair]

Man, check out "www.tropicalmoonmusic.com"!

Not only can you order yourself a brand new beast like Tim's - they have a quintuple neck electric they'll sell you ! And some other doozies.

[Keith Cordell]

That is the most entertaining website I think I have ever seen... no kidding. Check out the product demos, I'm not sure but I think there is something somewhat psychedelic happening in that store. I'd love to work there!!!

[Tim Carlson]

Not only can you order yourself a brand new beast like Tim's - they have a quintuple neck electric they'll sell you ! And some other doozies.

I'm not quite sure just how much sarcasm was intened there.
Before anyone gets any funny ideas(like I did), let me tell you these are VERY cheaply built instruments.
There are no string ferrules on the back of the guitar. The ball ends were just wedged into the holes drilled for the strings.
The electronics were grounded by wrapping a bare wire through each ball end. The switch down by the lap steel neck does absolutely nothing. There are three wires soldered to the middle tabs on the switch, but nothing on the outer tabs.
Additionally, there are two separate outputs, but no provision for using a single output. I'm afraid to hook this up to two amps at once, given the poor electronics layout.
I also believe that the pots in this are linear taper, and not the necessary audio taper pots. All of the volume and tone sweep happens in about 30% of the throw of the knobs.
These are all issues I plan to address in the near future.

[Tim Carlson]

The original crappy bridge

My new super custom, one off, Sucker Punch Sally's brass roller bridge!

I've got most of the ordered parts I need. A stop at the local hardware store will net me the rest of what I need to make this monster playable. WEEeee!!!!

[Bob Borzelleri]

100 % Satisfaction Guaranteed
This item has a full 3 Day Satisfaction Guarantee! If you are not satisfied with your purchase
within the first 3 days of receiving, simply contact us via email. Return the item in the same
new condition as you received it, and we will refund your bid amount minus 10 percent
restocking feel, and minus shipping charges. This gives each buyer 3 days to inspect the
instrument and it takes the worry out of your purchase.
MONEY BACK GUARANTEED VIA PAYPAL!!

Is there something wrong with this picture?

How does a 100% satisfation policy equate with a 10% restocking fee?

How about "Money Back Guaranteed Via PayPal"? Where does the 10% restocking fee equate to "Money Back"?

This policy and the fact that most of the instruments look like they were created for the filming of Mel Brooks' "Young Frankenstein" leave with the notion that this operation will not make my short list for instrument purchases.

[Tim Carlson]

If I hadn't already bought it, I'd be with you, Bob. But I do know I'll never buy from them, or one of the "tennessee" guitars again. By the time I'm done with it, it will undoubtedly be the nicest Tennesse guitar ever.

[Tim Carlson]

First off, if you're a luthier or builder of any sort, please don't berate me for my lack of knowledge or improper terminology. I'm a former prototype machinist using only hand tools, and a LOT of guestimation! I'm on a bit of a break from working on the nut and bridge, so I snapped a few pics to share. Sorry for the poor quality photos; I only have an old crappy phone for pics right now.

So I got the ferrules installed. Minor drilling for depth and diameter, as the rear ferrules were non-existant, and the front ones were plastic and firmly wedged into holes that were too small. These aren't as pretty as I'd like, but they're functional, and I'm impatient.





I'm putting the brass roller bridge on hold, for now, and have opted to use the same 3/4x3/4@1/8thick aluminum angle that I'm using for the nut. I'm using O/A torch tip cleaners to slot the nut and bridge. I quickly found that these little buggers bend much too easily, so I "fabbed" a little support for them.

I made a nifty little "jig" in order to maintain a "trailing angle" in the nut slot.




I hope the string angle idea works as well in reality as it does in my head! I'll post more updates when I finish bolting things together.

BTW, that's not blood on my finger, that's red sharpie from the initial layout.

[Tom Pettingill]

Looking good Tim, great idea for giving the tip cleaner some backbone

[Alan Brookes]

Tim, make sure you run a small round file through the slots. If you saw the slots they have a rectangular shape, and you will save string breakage if you just take off the corners. Just two or three strokes with the file will do. You don't need to enlarge them.

[Tim Carlson]

No saws, Alan. I wanted to get a nice set, but they're a bit cost prohibitive when just trying to hack one cheap guitar together. It's a round oxy/acetalene torch tip cleaner. The pack is about $5, and has a dozen or so little files in it. Theres different sizes from .056 down to about .020". The back of the nut slots are getting "rounded down" in an attempt to minimize string breakage.

[Tim Carlson]

So the first mock-up is finaly done!







There were a few hiccups. After hitting the top of the nut in order to remove a few burrs thrown up while filing the string slots, I realized I had the wrong file in my hand, and took a bit too much off. I've got the slightest buzz on the highest string, and it goes away when there's a bar on the string. But that's not much of an issue right now. The pickup in this is a regular guitar pickup; it's too narrow and both the highest and lowest strings are nearly nonexistant in volume. No big deal. I'll play it as an ugly 6 string with a few extras until I can come up with a few $s to drop in a new pickup. When that happens, I'll tear it down, fix the few issues it has; fix the string buzz, dress up the aluminum, nice and shiney like, cut a new lower pick guard for it, re-wire for single and/or stereo out, better pots, caps, and wires, big strap buttons, etc. and put it all back together again.
For years, I was constantly tweaking on my crappy guitars before getting fed up with it and I started buying "quality" equipment. Now I realize I kinda miss this. Although it does help having 2 other good guitars to play and not having to wrench just in order to play! It's just the same way I feel with cars. HAVING to put a new starter in you only daily driver so you can get to work on Monday morning = no fun at all. Wrenching on a race car = no prob.

[Tom Pettingill]

Tim, for a good and reasonably priced 8 string pickup, the Wallace TruTone is well liked. I've got one for an upcoming build and it was only $74 shipped.
The build quality is great and I'm looking forward to putting it through its paces.

For the tinkerer, another option on the cheap "may" be the GFS Danelectro lipstick pup.
http://store.guitarfetish.com/protudfidagu.html
It would require some routing and or some creative mounting.
I emailed Jay at GFS about this and here is the reply.
.............
Hi

Your specs state that the Pro Tube "D" is 3 1/4" long.
How much sensing area is there?
I am considering it for a 8 string lapsteel application that has 2 5/8" string spacing.

Thanks
..............

I think you're probably good up to 2 3/4"- 2 5/8 Might be right at the edge of the magnets

Jay
..............

[Tim Carlson]

I've got a few ideas for pickups, but haven't made my decision, yet. I'm thinking of going with a 4 conductor HB, so I can do a single coil tap.

[Jim Ward]

Hi Tim,

I have just read this thread while enjoying the background musical styling of King Lizard demoing the 12 String Tennessee Bass (Must resist the urge to impulse buy).

Afraid of clicking on the "Interesting Links" tab of Tropicalmoon's website, but feeling inspired by your project, it's of to my workshop. I'll be posting a couple of my own projects soon, best of luck with yours, looks like your doing well so far. Great stuff on this forum!