Did Hippies Hurt or Help American Music?

[Jim Davies]

After turning on and dropping out I decided to tune back in - can't believe this is still going on. What a riduculous question - as long as you are not buying just what is being sold quality creative energy can be found any place, any time. As far the expanded conciousness generation; from what I can see they are the ones that are running this place now.

I hope you all are not driving SUV's full off factory farmed raised bacon while Iraq is being torn apart by the good ole USA. I guess protesting is for the young. Go ahead and shoot - aren't your guns loaded with flowers anyway?

[Mike Winter]

Mike P -- you're SO right about "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas." I had to put it on pause a couple of times because it was so real...it sure took me back.

Doug B -- Yeah, the scene in "Easy Rider" was pretty close, too.

The movie "The Trip" had good intentions, but didn't quite cut it.

Anyone here go to any of the Acid Tests with Kesey and the Pranksters back in '65 or so?

[Peter Dollard]

The responding commentary in this thread reminds me of the end of the movie, "Midnight In The Garden of Good And Evil." When asked if he is going to move out of Savannah the recently aquitted of murder protagonist Jim Williams states, "Of course not living here pisses off all the right people".

[Jim Cohen]

This thread has certainly taken some interesting twists and turns that I, at least, didn't forsee! (Maybe I should have?) Anyway, I'd just like to express my thanks to Matt for kicking off this very entertaining bit of Forumalia, which you may or may not appreciate after you come back from your hiatus.

[David L. Donald]

The personel computer was not an IBM invention of the 50's.
Unless you were astoundingly rich.

It was a product of the post hippie mind set.
Doing at home for your self,
and not for the DARPA net etc.

There were sp many fine acts from the hippie days.
Most albums of ANY day had throw away cuts.
But prior to the 50's more the two songs at
a session was a rarity.

The hippie era coincided exactly with the dawn of experimental multi track production.
The Beatles were hippie to the core,
but their music and unique production techiniques
(yes G. Matrin helped)
STILL stand up to listening and bring a smile.

The Beach Boys seemed curfer clean
but inside they were pretty hippie themselves.
Their productions reflect that. They were a
clear transition between the two American eras.

There are too many bands that just nailed a style and a song,
and even now decades later their influence is still felt.

I'll take the hippie bands over most of the
current world of music today. In spite of greater exposure to more influences,
It has commercially homoginized again.
I await the backswing.

Our original poster clearly suffers from
"Hippie Parent syndrome". Which is the mirror image
of what created the hippies. The stiffling 50's homoginazation and materialization of the american populace.
Many went for their own path, and eventually found it.
While their, kids DID THE SAME,
but in exactly the opposite direction.


Yes, too much freedom isn't perfect,
and too much stricture isn't either.
Many found their way, some didn't.

But that time created many good things, and good memories.

[Michael Winter]

Thanks to Matt for kicking off a very fun and interesting thread! This is exactly what the SGF should be about, expressed OPINIONS, personal preferences, and hopefully some good old fashioned constructive criticism!
It’s been a real hoot!
Thanks to Bob for not shuttin’ er down too soon too!

All in good fun!

[Peter Dollard]

I think the dander that seems to have gone up in this thread is directly related to how we saw(see) our own lives in that particular period. I'm sure everyone at this time has conflicted feelings about that time: The good, the not so good,etc....As I was thinking about the whole period I thought of some of the stuff I did and I kind of cringed and said well it was the sixties...With that as a kind of backdrop it was evident that there was going to be a strong reaction a kind of defending your life scenario. I have to say though this is some of the best writing and dialogue I have seen here in a very long time...I'm with Herb on that.

[Marc Jenkins]

Wow. I abandoned this post in the early stages due to it's ignorance and anger. You fellas really turned it around, indeed!

I'm only 32 years old, but since my early teens I've always identified with certain aspects of hippie/beat culture. Of course, like so many Canadian (and probably American) teenage boys, it started with a Doors/Jim Morrison obsession, and moved forward to Hendrix, Cream, Jeff Beck, Led Zeppelin, the Band, etc...

While I'm no fan of the 'Trustifarians', wasted kids being supremely lazy in the name of 'freedom' or 'sticking it to the man', all-night bongo-drum flea-infested dog-bark jams in the park across the street, or totally uninformed opinions from a holier than thou know it all, I think you guys have pretty accurately detailed what has been gained from and since the hippie generation. Musically and otherwise.

Way to take back the night!

[Jim Cohen]

Hey! What's wrong with all-night bongo-drum flea-infested dog-bark jams in the park across the street?

Some of my best years were wasted doing that!
.

[Marc Jenkins]

It reminds me too much of being in the campground at a Phish concert one night a few years back! There were well over 100 'drummers' beating out an ambiguous rhythm ALL NIGHT LONG about 100 feet from my tent.

I live close to the biggest park in Victoria, and if the windows are open, I can be kept awake for a long, long time... The fact that it happens isn't a problem, of course.

[Dave Van Allen]

Glad someone finally mentioned Jeff Beck... I'd say he definitely HELPED

[Doug Beaumier]

What I want to know is... how did all of you freaks get into the Steel Guitar?

Could it have been through Poco, The New Riders of the Purple Sage, The Flying Burrito Bros, or, dare I mention, Jerry Garcia? ...our hero of "a black mark of a time period… lack of practice, sloppiness, meandering (non-dynamic) solos, loud volume, distortion... and jam bands"

[Jim Cohen]

Um... well, yeah... i guess so...
.

[Doug Beaumier]

Come on Jim... say it LOUD and say it PROUD

[Eric Jaeger]

Amazing thread.. while we're commenting on the period, I'll add a few:

1) a recent PBS special made the point that Silicon Valley would not have happened if not for the legacy of the Haight. The genre-bending refusal to accept what was and wasn't possible was (and is) key to all the information technology you're using (like what you're using to read this right now). And much of it was actually developed at Berkeley and Stanford. And engineers had (and still have) long hair long after it's gone out of fashion everywhere else.

2) it must have been something in the water, because every field you can think of, from physics to geology to music to auto racing to (whatever) transformed during that period.

No, I don't think you can dismiss it as bad hygiene, dubious morals, lack of discipline, and wanky music.

Since I'm a product of the period I've always been extremely suspicious of self-congratulatory odes to the 60's, and every generation probably thinks of their youth as an amazingly generative experience. But I think any fair-minded evaluation has to conclude that something special happened.

And in retrospect I think "What's so funny about peace love and understanding" just about sums it up.

-eric

[Bob Blair]

Yes Doug, those would be the guys! All but Poco were there at Festival Express, in fact, making a huge impression on my 17 year-old brain.

[Steve Hitsman]

Taking a mediocre, sloppy, meandering, non-dynamic solo at the Broom Factory (where Jay Farrar records... that's his analog recorder behind the fan).

Note the questionable fashion statement and personal hygiene (my mom still bugs me about my hair).

[Webb Kline]

Doug said,

What I want to know is... how did all of you freaks get into the Steel Guitar? Winking

Burritos and New Riders did it to me. It's all their fault.

Not long ago I was returning from a gig about 3am when I saw a car load of hippies broken down alongside of the road--rather than going for help or trying to fix it themselves, they were all sitting behind the car playing djembi drums. I thought, to myself, wow, what a great idea!

What goes around comes around.

[Eric Jaeger]

What I want to know is... how did all of you freaks get into the Steel Guitar?

It's all Bobby Black's fault. I enjoyed "Teach Your Children", but hearing Bobby with the Commander was all it took.

-eric

[Marc Jenkins]

What I want to know is... how did all of you freaks get into the Steel Guitar?

Calexico, Neil Young's Harvest and Tonight's the Night, Dylan's Nashville Skyline, Flying Burrito Brothers, Gram Parsons solo albums, Sweetheart of the Rodeo, Workingmans' Dead, Japancakes, Daniel Lanois.

[Mike Winter]

Doug B...yes...and others...

I also was thinking about mentioning how the counterculture anti-war movement...and the music... was instrumental in...nevermind.

This has been an awesome thread. Don't know where your thinking is with this now, Matt...probably the same but I hope not. Thanks for kicking off a very thought-provoking thread, possibly in spite of how you feel.

I'm lazy and don't want to review the whole thing...has b0b chimed in?

[Scott Shipley]

IBM didn't invent the computer in the 1950's. Lest we forget the ENIAC (1940's) or the Antikythera (circa 100 BC).
Hey, where did that kid go? Must be a school night.

[Jason Odd]

I'm turning 37 next week, and despite the fact that I am, by various accounts a hippy-ish character, I'm not one..

I grew up in a reasonably nice hick town, where only the most lame of mainstream culture seemed to get by, we had no indie radio, just top 40 and easy listening.

I was born in '71, absolutely loved the 70s, glam rock, disco, new wave, of course only the hits made it my way.. the 80s started off okay for me, then it was the new romantics and I knew their was trouble, rap hadsome killer moments for me, I always have a chuckle when it gets picked on here... you cannot believe how much it impressed us puny white kids, and of course heavy metal and the 80s.

I fondly recall just about every kid walking around in Metallica t-shirts, and although I dug 'em, I chose Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin.

AS I got older and went to Uni I slowly discovered all the great punk, post punk and indie rock bands from the 80s: Pere Ubu, Television, Black Flag, Dead Milkmen, The Damned, Sonic Youth, Swans, Husker Du, the Meat Puppets, Joy Division, Wire, the Pixies, and of course grunge was just breaking out, so suddenly my metal roots met together with punk rock, it was an awesome coming of age.

Of course they went and made grunge all professional and slick, Live, Bush, Stone Temple Pilots, grunge me to the chorus - pop up toaster music to me.
Then of course it was Nu-metal, the most generic blend of grind, industrial and of course rap.. hey a whole bunch of dudes grew up on that stuff.. good for them.

Overall I have a fairly solid love of my own personal era of music, when I was 20 I bought the Robert Johnson box set and a bunch of blues reissues, I was a big fan of the late 60s Brit-Blues boom as well, but in truth as much as I like the blues, Funk (1968-74 especially) and country-rock speak to me more.
I used to think soul music was incrediably dull, then around the time I rediscovered country music in the mid 90s, I came to realise that soul music was the same vibe, had the same heart.

so, I would guess that I'm around the same age as Matt, who started this topic.

[Jim Cohen]

Okay, but how often do you bathe?

Jus' kidding but I gotta say, now that you've described your personal musical roots/routes, I'm all the more amazed at how much detailed history of country music you've digested since then.

[Jim Cohen]

Okay, okay, I confess!


Photo courtesy Mike Ihde