Carter vs Black Jack Custom

Stephen Wells · Post by **Stephen Wells** » 27 Jan 2008 2:35 pm

I am giving serious thought to making the jump to a pedal guitar. I like what I am reading on the standard Carter Pro model S-10 and the Black Jack Custom. Has any one played both and formed an opinion they would care to share?
Thanks
Stephen
(Crafters of TN Virginian-Lapking Rodeo)

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 27 Jan 2008 3:29 pm

I've heard quite a bit of good things about the Blackjack. Wouldn't give a nickel for a Carter if only because of their poor reputation.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Jan 2008 5:29 pm

Everyone I know with a Carter loves it. The Jacksons are very recent, and by the few reports that have come in so far they are also fine instruments. It's hard to find fault with either of them. I'd go for the one that looks best to me.

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 27 Jan 2008 5:34 pm

No doubt in my mind the Carter may be a fine guitar. However, the unsatisfactory reports that keep filtering in from Starter owners leaves a bad taste.

I hope they address that issue soon. "Whaddya expect for that kind of money" is a terrible way to treat customers and future potential buyers of upscale units.

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 27 Jan 2008 5:36 pm

I'm with you bOb. I would put my Carter up against anything out there.

In fact, about 3 years ago, I played the show that Steve Leonard put on in Virginia. (Several cuts on YouTube with Laney singing). When I finished my set, John Hughey, Randy Beavers, Herby Wallace and Russ Hicks were all standing in front of me. John's exact words were "That is a Keeper"
nuf said
Bill

Mike Widman · Post by **Mike Widman** » 27 Jan 2008 6:45 pm

Stephen,
I am a new member to the forum and this is my first post. I too am making the jump to pedal steel. I was in exactly your position 10 days ago. I pulled the trigger on a 3+4 Blackjack over a Carter S10. I made the decision by reading posts on the forum and whatever other info I could gather. Basically, I am in it for $1750 including shipping, leg extensions, and a case (with a 12 week wait.) If I ordered a "ready to go now" Carter S10 before the price increase I was looking $2050 (with a 5th knee, case, extensions, and shipping). All told, pretty equal. I guess I was convinced by the passionate reviews of those who have actually played the Blackjack and by the knowledge that I could sell it on the forum if I give up on pedal steel. Good Luck.

Patiently waiting for my steel.

Mike

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 27 Jan 2008 8:35 pm

I've owned two Carters (a D10 and an S10), and currently have a Blackjack. Both companies make quality instruments. I just heard Steve Smith play his new Carter in concert last week, and it sounded like (to borrow a Herb Steiner phrase) God's own steel.

Personally speaking, I prefer the Blackjack for tone, string spacing, pedal/lever action, stability, and looks. The Blackjack sounds completely different than the Carters I owned. Not necessarily superior, but just more vintage - for lack of a better descriptor. It comes closer to what I hear on old recordings. That undoubtedly has something to do with the Jackson family legacy of Sho~Bud and the fact that the Blackjack has a pickup modelled after the original Shot Jackson design on Permanents. Also, the Blackjack body is bigger than most modern S10s which lends itself to better stability and (flame away) a fuller sound. There are other design elements that make the Blackjack a tone machine, all of which can be read about and viewed at their website.

Once again, it all depends on what you want. The Carter D10 I owned had spectacular tone, very Emmons-sounding; the S10 I didn't like so much, but that may have been a pickup issue. Either way, the Blackjack sounds the best of all modern brands I've played. I am ultimately partial to an old Sho~Bud, but the Blackjack comes closest to that vibe, both visually and sonically, for me.

One last thing: Jackson customer service cannot be beat. You can be guaranteed open communication and a "customer is always right" attitude - a trait increasingly rare these days.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 27 Jan 2008 8:43 pm

I've owned four Carter steels and for the last two years I've played a Williams D10 and I will say Carter played and stayed in tune as good or better than anything I've owned in 26 years.

Bud,John and Ann treated me great and I would consider another.

Never tried a Blackjack but I'd like to someday.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Jan 2008 9:27 pm

RC Antolina wrote:No doubt in my mind the Carter may be a fine guitar. However, the unsatisfactory reports that keep filtering in from Starter owners leaves a bad taste.

This topic is not about the Carter Starter or any other student model. Stephen asked us to compare the "standard Carter Pro model S-10 and the [Jackson] Black Jack Custom". The Carter Starter is not in that class.

Price comparison (from their web sites):

Carter S-10, 3+5, with case: $1995

Jackson Black Jack Custom, 3+4, no case: $1745

The bottom line is that there isn't much difference in price between the two, once you consider the 5th knee lever and case. The Carter uses a more "normal" changer design, but I have no doubt that the Jackson changer works very well. I'm not sure that I would hear a big tone difference between them.

Given the relative equalities between the two, I recommend whichever one looks best to you.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 27 Jan 2008 9:34 pm

The Jackson changer is the first one in which I could feel a very palpable string vibration in the hex wrench, while tweaking the tuning.

Louis Vallee · Post by **Louis Vallee** » 27 Jan 2008 9:47 pm

Personally I like the tone and quality of my Carter D-10.

I buyed two PSG from Al Brisco in Canada and always I had an very good service.

Charlie Tryon · Post by **Charlie Tryon** » 28 Jan 2008 6:49 am

Well I have had my Blackjack since Sept./07 and have now played a lot of gigs with it. I love this guitar. I have owned 2 Carter guitars but just could not get what I wanted from them. Yes they worked well mechanically and stayed in tune well I just could not for what ever reason get the sound I wanted. The Blackjack did this for me without even trying it just had it....that sound as Chris put it.
Both good choices but for me JACKSON all the way hands down....just me and it is like buying a car all are good but not everyone has the same one with the same options.

Charlie

John Drury · Post by **John Drury** » 28 Jan 2008 7:49 am

RC,

Seriously,what do you expect for that kind of money? It is a 3x4 in a case for $895- or less depending on where you buy it. It is called a "Starter", the company is very up front about what class the instrument is in.

It is a decent quality entry level guitar that is playable, before it came along newbies were screwed.

In all fairness sit behind an ashtray Maverick, 3x1 wich sold for about a grand back in the day. To get anything out of the guitar, you had to really know what the hell you were doing. And there was no video in deal to get you rolling.

I have had two Carter steel guitars built for me, both were delivered without a single flaw. I am considering a third.

If I am not mistaken Carter outsells any other brand out there, they truly are "World Class Steel Guitars".

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 28 Jan 2008 8:13 am

I have never owned a Carter but I have a Magnum D10 that I would be happy to put up against any brand guitar for sound and playability. I bet the Blackjack is also a great guitar.
Jerry

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Jan 2008 9:46 am

read post from the past, and anyone can see that carter has some serouis customer relations problems

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 28 Jan 2008 10:33 am

Chris LeDrew wrote: One last thing: Jackson customer service cannot be beat. You can be guaranteed open communication and a "customer is always right" attitude - a trait increasingly rare these days.

This would be the most important factor to me in chosing between the two steels. There are good qualities to both of them. When you need help or when you need a problem resolved, go with the company that exhibits their willingness to take care of you. You want to own the guitar a long time. Choose a company that will stand behind their product a long time.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 28 Jan 2008 11:18 am

I own three PSGs. One is a Carter SD10 that I've had for seven years. It's a keeper.

The only time I called the factory, about a small issue, Bud Carter answered the phone and was very helpful.

I've heard equally good things about the Jacksons.

There's no definite choice. Just matters of personal taste.

Comparing either to a Carter Starter is just plain silly. If something costs more than twice as much, you expect it to be better.

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 28 Jan 2008 2:40 pm

John Drury,

Out of respect for b0b's post 3 before yours I won't discuss the issue in this thread. However, if and when we do discuss it and before you berate me, have all your facts in order... as do I.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 28 Jan 2008 5:24 pm

Carters sound pretty good to me... I have sold off 4 beautiful vintage Buds since I got my Carter.. Its still here,,,
I can't even remember the last time I have even had to tune it completely.. Been months I think,, and its been in the car trunk for two months during this upstate NY winter, and taken to gigs most weekends lately.. I hook the tuner up and its within a few cents of 440.. PERIOD,, ad infinitum..
My Buds [each and every one] needed tuning tweaks several times each night...every night...
Carter Steel Guitars are the choice of MANY great players that can afford to play ANY guitar.. I go with the "personal choice" guys..

Carters play and sound as good as anything out there.. If you have one that doesn't sound good.. Check your pickups.. or amp.. or effects... wires...picks, bar, HANDS... etc etc etc.... bob

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 28 Jan 2008 5:46 pm

last time i ran into bobby black, his carter sounded as good as anything i've heard him play!
i have always felt, however, that if you have $1000 to spend, find an old pro model rather than a student model!

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 28 Jan 2008 5:50 pm

chris ivey wrote:if you have $1000 to spend, find an old pro model rather than a student model!

Not many of them around for $1000 these days.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 28 Jan 2008 6:26 pm

Buy both guitars!

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 28 Jan 2008 6:49 pm

There ya go, Billy! That's always the best option.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jan 2008 3:01 am

RC Antolina wrote:I've heard quite a bit of good things about the Blackjack. Wouldn't give a nickel for a Carter if only because of their poor reputation.

RC, sorry buddy I feel you are incorrect.

You have fallen victim to a few folks who for whatever reason decided to air there side of a story on a public forum.

You have not stated that you had a personal experience with Carter so I guess we should assume your are stating your opinion from what you read.

How do you know what you read is actually the facts ?

Historically Manufacturers do not get into spitting contests on Public Forums, and they shouldn't. I wouldn't.

The Internet is great place, we read threads all the time about all sorts of stuff, what we don't know is anything about the person who is actually typing or complaining.

Not everyone tells the whole story, they tell the story they think is accurate many times leaving out crucial details.

I hate these threads. I hate dissing anyone.

One time I had a brand new GTO, it had a bad Motor. Pontiac replaced it. Thats it, I recommend nobody ever buy a Pontiac.

tp

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 29 Jan 2008 3:37 am

This thread actually seems overwhemingly in Carter's favour to me. If anything, the forum suffers from not enough people stating their true feelings. I think a public forum is the very place to state one's feelings about a particular product. I like to call things as I see them, and I've had enough experience with both guitars to state my opinions with authority. I gigged heavily with my D10 Carter and knew it inside out. If my overall experience (or anybody else's) with Carter was not as stellar as somebody else's, what makes my experience any less authentic? I have absolutely no obligation to ANY company here, and I can say what I want. In fact, if I really let loose on some personal experiences, this thread would be a lot hotter than it is now. But I know where that would lead. Many off-forum chats have affirmed my belief that most people hold back their negative experiences for fear of being "scolded".

I respect the fact that people like their Carters, and I think it's important to respect the fact that some have moved on from this brand for various reasons. I think, for the most part, members are being civil (while truthful) on this thread. I think a public forum is our only chance as players to have any freedom of expression within this community. A story only need to be one-sided if no one is willing to tell the other side.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Carter vs Black Jack Custom

Carter vs Black Jack Custom

Same position: Carter S10 vs Blackjack

Blackjack/Carter

psg