Was black an original color for a fender 400?

Jack Mansfield · From: Reno, NV

There is a black fender 400 for sale in a local music store here in Reno. I have looked at it very closely and it appears to be all orignal. It is all black with the fender logo on the front of the guitar on a slant, and the decal on the pedal board on a slant. It is in real nice shape and doesn't seem to have been played very much. The only thing wrong I can see is that it was an original 6 pedal, two of the pedals rods are missing, so it can still be made into a four pedal. It does have all six pedals that are black. This is a 23 inch scale. It does not seem to been refinished. The only reason I'm asking is that I have never seen an all black 400.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

I don't know about the older ones - with the chrome pedals - but the later models - '60's, with the black pedals - were available in any of Fender's custom finishes.
Rare, but available.

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Judging from your discription, “a 23” scale and black pedals”, it sounds like a Fender 800. (S–10)-Model
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<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

No, John - it could be a 400 or 800. The 400 would be the 8-string version (I have one) and the 800 the 10 string.

While they could be made in custom colors as Skip said, in reality there have not, to my knowledge, been any verified factory custom-color short-scale steels. 100% of them have been sunburst. If someone has one with provenance, it'd be great to hear about, but the short-scale models were made in limited number compared to long scales, not overly popular, and they were not something Fender could just grab off a busy line and finish differently like a Strat or Tele. They were made in batches and a custom color would be a tough thing to do, especially during the CBS years when profit margins were critical.

But there's also something really amiss if the logo in the front of the guitar is on a slant as described. It should be a rectangular metal plate at the changer end on the front of the guitar, and perfectly level. If it's a decal, it's been refinished or is a fake. See pic:

The pedal rack decal is almost irrelevant. Those have been easily obtained and placing one on a refinished wood plank is a no-brainer.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Jim, you may be right. The only custom color Fender steel I've ever seen is the Candy Apple red 800 in the '66 catalog. I've never seen one in real life.
There's a black Deluxe 8 pictured, as well.
Pretty cool, though.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Your having said that the guitar is black, and that the logo is on an angle would hint that it's probably one of the Fender "Artist Series" guitars, built by Sho~Bud. The giveaway would be if the "logo" is actually a large metal namplate (the same type they used on the amps) and the guitar has no cables underneath, but is rod-operated. These guitars aren't true Fender pedal steels in the real sense, but more of a hybrid Sho~Bud design that used a few Fender parts.

Though the 800 and 2000 models were available in custom colors for a brief period in the mid-late '60s, I don't believe that any custom colors were available on the 8-string (400 & 1000) models.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Donny, I doubt it's an Artist with 6 pedals!

Skip - yeah, that one red 800 in the photo is the ONLY one ever verified (and no one knows where it is) - every other custom-color job appears to be a refin, with the exception of a few long-scale 400's that local country-swing players used in the 50's. A few have shown up that seem to have all the right details to be a factory-finish job rather than a refin, but I don't recall a single one with any sort of provenance to back it up.

Jack - some questions that may help:

1. 8 strings or 10?
2. flat, rectangular pickup or thin, rounded one set at an angle?
3. Chrome stamped pedals of black cast ones?
4. Scale length?
5. Metal frame with a wood body or something else?
6. Are the logos decals, plates, or cast-metal script?
7. Is the mechanism a set of cables and pulleys or crosshafts, bellcranks and rods?

In the abscence of pics, answers to these questions can really help pin it down.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jack Mansfield · From: Reno, NV

Donny, this is a 400 model 8 string 6 pedals,like the red one in the picture only black. It is not an artist series or an 800 model

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Donny, it would be unusual, It also would not be easily mistaken for a 400. It also wouldn't have an angled logo on the pedal rack, and "not refinished" would be "not recovered"...since part of it would be covered in tolex.

I posted my additional questions to clear things up, since the "800" and "Artist" comments were leading away from the questiont he was trying ask.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

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