Sho Bud Permanent

Neil Lang · Post by **Neil Lang** » 25 Dec 2007 9:23 am

I have had this one since 1969. 9X4, add on knee levers.
Neil

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 17 Jan 2008 1:47 pm

I'm having a problem getting my 8th string raise E to F to return properly. It returns sharp. I have to bump the E lower to get the string back all of the way. This has the permanent type fingers with the more modern cross shafts and cranks.

I took the changer apart and cleaned it all out, so there isn't anything sticking there. I cleaned and polished the rollers so it's not sticking there. I can see that the finger it'self isn't returning. The rods seem to not be binding inside the finger.

Are there any tricks to this? I thought you permanent owners would be able to help.

steve

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 17 Jan 2008 3:27 pm

Here's a pix of my old Sho~Bud, not sure if it was a permanent or not? But sure wish I had kept it

Wish I still had that Standel Amp behind it (2-12" EV SROs).

Wish I was this young again too

I sold this for a new 1970 MSA D10, which I DO still have.

Phillip Telford · Post by **Phillip Telford** » 18 Jan 2008 12:54 pm

Steve, Does you E lower to D# too, if so, you might need to adjust your return spring on that rod.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 18 Jan 2008 1:04 pm

It could be that the travel is too short on that change. Look at the collar that pulls that change. See if when it come back if it is tight to the bellcrank. You might just need to loosen it ever so slightly to let the rod release and then tighten it back up. Another thing, have you changed string brands, gauges, or gone from stainless to nickel or vice-versa?

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 18 Jan 2008 1:22 pm

I appreciate the suggestions, thanks.

"It could be that the travel is too short on that change......"

The travel for that lever is set by a set screw attached to the lever itself. This set screw is used to tune that pull. I use it to tune the 4th string E to F pull, then the 8th string pull has adjustable tuning nuts behind the colar which tunes that string. So I don't think I can adjust the travel or else it would change the pitch of the tuned note.

There is an E to D# lower on both 4th and 8th strings. I have adjusted the spring attached to that lever. It's the one that holds the string in the E note position. If I tighten it to much the E's in the no pedals position will start to go sharp. If I lossen it to much the D# will not return to the E completly.

I don't think the rods are binding in the finger,but something is keeping the finger from going back all of the way. Maybe I need a bigger gauge string? I'm using the Ricky davis E9 set. Maybe I need to make the holes in the finger bigger just in case the rods are binding. If I set the finger to be closer to hitting the wood part of the guitar body in the no pedals position it would give the string more tention to return to the E after the raise?

Sorry this is so long I just don't want to give up on this yet.

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 18 Jan 2008 8:29 pm

bump for Steve's problem. I know there's a ton of long time Sho~Bud pickers out there.

Phillip Telford · Post by **Phillip Telford** » 19 Jan 2008 2:05 pm

Check to see if the rod that raises your F has enough slack. Then tune the F with the lever compressed with the tuner on the key head. Then tune the E with the nut on the lowering rod. Then tune the D# with the tuning screw on the tail plate. I would like to a picture of your set up so I can really tell for sure what to look at. I hope this helps,
Phil

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 4 Mar 2008 2:37 pm

I figured out what was causing the problem of my 8th string raise not returning. The rods weren't as straight as they should have been so there was some drag inside the finger. I think I'll have to move the knee axle closer to the changer in order to make it work well in the long run.

But.....I have a new sho bud permanent. I'm surprised that I can get as much done as I can without any knee levers but I think I'm going to add at least two. But there is no finger on strins 9, 8 and 7, just spacers and the string mounts to the chnager end. I posted in the WTB area but I thought I would do it here as well.

Does anybody have changer fingers to sell for a permanent? They look like 5/16th wide.

Thanks,
Steve

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 4 Mar 2008 2:50 pm

Steve, you might give Coop a call. If anybody has 'em, he will! Here's mine.

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 4 Mar 2008 3:19 pm

I emailed coop. I thought James had said that John was supper busy for the next few weeks so I hadn't contacted him yet.

I also figured out how to get the lowering part of the C6th neck working that I had asked you about. Mine is different in that it has one crosshaft for all lowers. A pull is transferred into a release by that axle. There isn't room to mount a bellcrank on the bootom of the axle for releases as I'm used to. There's also no pedal stops so you have to use the finger against the body as a stop. Pretty simple. Sounds good even with dead strings.

I noticed the other day that Hal Rug plays a permanent in a number of songs on the Wilburn bros. shows. But it seems like he is playing a Baldwin sho bud in prior years and a fingertip in earlier years. (guessing by the clothing style). It looks like he chose to play a permanent after trying out those other guitars? You can see some on Youtube.

Steve

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 4 Mar 2008 3:26 pm

Steve, you're right about John being super busy. I usually call him a couple times a week just to bs. But I haven't been doin' that for a month or so, cuz he's up to his eyeballs in work. I miss the conversations though!
Shobud continued to make Perms much later than most people think. If you ordered one, they'd make it! Glad you figured out your problem. I've been knee-deep in some other guitars, and haven't even really looked at my Perm. Tryin' to get a grip on a Fingertip is, er,,,, challenging!

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 23 Sep 2009 10:41 am

I'm reviving a very old thread since I thought it would be better to consolidate Sho Bud Permanent info into one place.

Some permanents, like mine, did not have changer fingers for each string. If there wasn't a change on a string they just used a spacer and the string would then mount directly onto the changer body. Mine had this changer on the 9th string and 7th string of the E9 neck and I like to have a 9th string lower. I needed fingers but couldn't find them. Others have posted the same need. I also noticed that the tops of the original fingers get fairly dented by the strings and who knows how many times these groves have been sanded off. Lastly, I needed a few fingers to have three holes in them so that I can have E raises and lowers.

So....Marty Smith made me two sets of fingers. The price was very reasonable and they turned out nice. The picture is fuzy for some reason. They also don't have rod holes drilled because I wanted to be able to put them exactly where they need to go on my guitar.

If you need fingers like this, contact Marty Smith.

Also, Out of curiousity, my guitar has rubber spacers between fingers. It seems like that wouldn't help tone too much. I was thinking of changing those out to metal. Does anyone else have these soft washers between fingers? You should be able to see the spacers in the place of fingers that I mentioned before with this picture.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Sep 2009 11:45 am

Neal Lang, your guitar (the one you are showing) is a finger tip, not a perm.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Sep 2009 11:59 am

Many of you have now spotted the deal on the perm.

Players that have had many Sho-Buds over the years, are now looking back and buying the perms. NOT the fingertips, NOT the crossovers.

Mark my word, just like I told everyone about the Bigsbys and Emmons P-Ps 30 years ago, these permanent original Sho-Buds are going to be worth some large bucks in the short future.

I feel I'll be seeing some Fingertip guitars being converted to Permanent guitars in the future, not too much trouble to do over all, and there are many GREAT worthless but beautiful Fingertips on the market that aren't usable to play until they are converted. However the greatest Rosewood in the world today is in the bodys of the mid sixties Fingertip Sho-Buds it seems. But the Maple sounds a lot better over all, no question.

Bobbe Seymour

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 9 Oct 2009 1:47 pm

Hey, any good 57 to 63 Sho-Buds out there???

Tommy Auldridge · Post by **Tommy Auldridge** » 10 Oct 2009 7:57 am

I still have a 1968 finger tip 9&4 Rosewood with the top being Black laq. Diamont shaped inlays on the edge of the necks and top and bottom edges of the front apron. This was kind of a copy of Jeff Newmans except it's a D-10 and without the inlay of the state of Texas on the front. I plan to have it compleatly gone over some day. If I only knew how to post photos, I would. It also has white fretboards.
Also, the SHO-BUD logo is not a decal, it's an inlay.
Really beautiful and hardly ever played.
Tommy Auldridge.................

Tommy Auldridge · Post by **Tommy Auldridge** » 10 Oct 2009 11:51 am

Man! I can't believe I misspelled DIAMOND! I'm usually very careful with my spelling. Tommy.........

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 10 Oct 2009 12:57 pm

That looks like Paul Vendemia's garages?

Wayne Franco

Tommy Auldridge · Post by **Tommy Auldridge** » 10 Oct 2009 1:20 pm

No, actually this is at a steel guitar show in Jefferson, Pa. last year. Although, I've been to Paul's garage many times. It's fun. Tommy.........

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Oct 2009 5:10 pm

Tommy, just permanents, no finger tips.

Bobbster

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 11 Oct 2009 5:16 pm

Hey Bobbe, if you have a permanant, but you sell it, is it now really just a temporary? You need to ask for a-uh-- well, you get the picture.

ok, I'll get back in my cave now.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Oct 2009 5:27 pm

I have had a lot of Sho-Bud "Temps".

Bobby Burns · Post by **Bobby Burns** » 12 Oct 2009 2:32 pm

In contrast to Bobbe's assumption that it will become common to convert fingertips to perms, I bought a single neck perm that had been converted to a fingertip. I'm sure the looked at a fingertip, and took some measurements. They did a fairly good job on the changer, but it was brass, and the tuning nuts were a little odd, but it sorta worked. I'm in the process of rebuilding the guitar, as a perm of course.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 13 Oct 2009 9:38 am

Good idea on the rebuild Bobby Burns. The guitar will work much better and be worth 100% more.
(ya' jest gotta' do a good job!)

Bobbster

The Steel Guitar Forum

Sho Bud Permanent

Finally found some fingers

Another Dormant Finger Tip

Tommy, are you playing at a jam in that picture