Its all blues out there !

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Jan 2008 12:57 am

I have been finding myself with bands playing early jazz, swing, ragtime and standards (Sinatra type tunes) lately. It all seems to boil down to blues. Although some forms have more complex structures and chords. Its been a ball learning how to play this stuff on the bandstand.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 7 Jan 2008 3:24 am

Whoever said it-----"when you boil it down, American music is either Zippety DooDah or the Blues".

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Jan 2008 7:55 am

Yeah, I also view jazz as inseparable from the blues. I always liked these quotes:

B.B. King: “Jazz is the big brother of the blues. If a guy's playing blues like we play, he's in high school. When he starts playing jazz it's like going on to college, to a school of higher learning.” and

“The blues was like that problem child that you may have had in the family. You was a little bit ashamed to let anybody see him, but you loved him. You just didn't know how other people would take it.”

Count Basie: “Of course, there are a lot of ways you can treat the blues, but it will still be the blues.”

Art Blakey: “You can't seperate modern jazz from rock or from rhythm and blues - you can't seperate it. Because that's where it all started, and that's where it all come from - that's where I learned to keep rhythm - in church.”

Dexter Gordon: “If you can't play the blues... you might as well hang it up.”

Well, Jon - up to a point. I always thought of the Celtic influences as yet another wrinkle.

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 7 Jan 2008 10:49 am

Jon Light wrote:Whoever said it-----"when you boil it down, American music is either Zippety DooDah or the Blues".

I don't know if he originated it, but that was a favorite saying of Townes Van Zandt...

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 7 Jan 2008 11:07 am

No doubt it’s because I grew up in North Mississippi, but I definitely approach jazz from the blues. Many steelers seem to come to jazz by way of ‘40s western swing and ‘50s bebop. While I admire the thick chords and gnat-picking bebob they get with C6, that approach doesn’t grab me in the gut the way blues-based cool jazz, funk, fusion and free jazz do. Probably that’s why I gravitated to E9/B6 universal instead of a D10. I can grab the thick chords when I want to, but for me the open power chords, pentatonic stuff and straight major and minor chords of blues lay out better with E9 always there under my fingers. E9 was also a natural progression from my open E slide guitar beginnings. Of course you can get lots of blues stuff on C6 also. My real point is to agree that coming to jazz directly from blues is different than coming to jazz from swing. Blues bands and blues/jazz audiences are fascinated with a steel guitar playing blues/jazz. Here are a couple of in-progress websites for my blues group (Blues Messengers website; MySpace). There’s not much steel on there yet, just a little in the background and some rhythm work, but there is a good bit in the can that will be on a CD soon, and I’ll put some of the tracks with my leads up on the sites.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 7 Jan 2008 11:19 am

Here's my favorite quote about blues and jazz:

"Blues is playing 3 chords to 1,000 people.
Jazz is playing 1,000 chords to 3 people."

.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Jan 2008 11:33 am

David:

pentatonic stuff and straight major and minor chords of blues lay out better with E9

The C6 already is a full pentatonic scale with the basic major and minor triads just sitting there with no pedals. It couldn't be more simple. With the regular C6 set up there is a low power chord when you hit the 8th pedal.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 7 Jan 2008 12:47 pm

Good music,is good music,As a country boy growing up in the 40's,Our only source of entertainment was a little Motorola radio,before rock and roll came along,you had two choices,Country[they called it hillbilly music back then]later on country and western,and the big bands and be-bop.I learned to love both,My two first musical heros were Hank Snow and Charlie[bird] Parker,To this day I enjoy listening to Dave Brubeck just as much as I do George Jones,I also love GOOD bluegrass,because I have always loved the old bebop jazz,Listen to the top bluegrass pickers such as Tony Rice,Sam Bush,Bela Fleck,etc,they are playing be-bop jazz licks,only on mandolins,banjo,and flat top guitars,instead of tenor and alto horns,or electric jazz guitars,great pickers with GREAT chops,play GREAT music,regardless of the style.DYKBC.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 7 Jan 2008 1:26 pm

Blues is the most popular form of music here in Sonoma County, California. My band always get our best audience response from our blues-oriented tunes.

That said, the wineries would rather hear us playing our new age jazz stuff. It fits their image better.

I find the two necks of my D-12 equally good for blues. The low strings of the extended E9th work great for electric power chords, and the C6th with a glass bar nails the delta slide sound.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Jan 2008 2:06 pm

I think that learning some basic blues/jazz music on the steel opens up all sorts of other gigs. It makes it easy to get away from the country sound if it doesn't fit the music. Plus you can use the blues stuff in the country music to give your playing a bit more depth.
So much steel playing is based on how you move from one chord to the next pivoting on dom 7ths and harmonized melodies within a single major scale. The basic blues approach can open up some very interesting options.

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 7 Jan 2008 2:17 pm

I have been finding myself with bands playing early jazz, swing, ragtime and standards (Sinatra type tunes) lately. It all seems to boil down to blues. Although some forms have more complex structures and chords. Its been a ball learning how to play this stuff on the bandstand.

I'm glad to hear this.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 7 Jan 2008 3:06 pm

"Good music,is good music!"
I am starting to like you Charlie, DYK

I play blues almost every Thursday nite in Wilmington DE with Dave Bromberg. .. it's an open mic format, lots of pickers, many nights some very extra good players..sax, trombone, sometimes both usually no keyboard

which leaves lots of space, and guitars of course.
Any steel players in the area are welcome to stop by.. IF you can hear the changes (we have had one or two that can't) and can play a rig with the E changes on the right .. your welcome to sit in on my Derby. It's usually 3 chord simple tunes.

Matthew Prouty · Post by **Matthew Prouty** » 7 Jan 2008 3:22 pm

Jim C, That was funny!

m.

Mac Knowles · Post by **Mac Knowles** » 7 Jan 2008 3:38 pm

Jim C.

That's the best one I've heard today!

Mac

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 7 Jan 2008 4:12 pm

yeh, me too, jim.....my favorite bebop player is buddy emmons.......it sounds so natural.....
(wish i could but i can't)

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 7 Jan 2008 8:43 pm

Over the last fifty years I have played in blues bands,country,southern rock,in my younger days,top 40 rock,But never had the chops to play my first love[bebop]I accepted my limitations years ago.I realized no matter how much I practiced[and I did a lot]I would never be able to play like Bird Parker,Herb Ellis,etc,IMO I think some are just born with that something special,If I'm not mistaken I think Wes Montgomery started playing when he was around 20 or 21 years old,If we ALL could play this well,then people like Wes,or Buddy Emmons,or the other great players would not be any thing special.I accept the fact that I'm just a mediocre player,but that beats not being a picker at all,I love every second of it.DYKBC.

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 7 Jan 2008 11:45 pm

<i> "You don't play the blues to make yourself feel better. You play the blues to make other people feel worse ! "
</i>
- Bleedin' Gums Murphy

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 8 Jan 2008 8:34 am

I play lap, not PSG, but the blues stuff is all I do. Another format to look at is the Sacred Steel stuff, which is heavily blues based and extremely suited to PSG or lap. I am influenced greatly by Darick Campbell, who is Sacred Steel's most prominent (to my mind) lap steel player. Freddie Roulette is also very interesting and has a style that is totally identifiable as lap steel, and very much his own. I'm pleased to see it being discussed here- I'd love to see some of you teachers doing some instructional material for various tunings skewed toward the blues.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 8 Jan 2008 8:56 am

Bob,

YES!

Drew

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Jan 2008 10:03 am

I'm not so sure the tuning matters much. It seems to be more about how you approach the music. If all you practice is country licks then you will most likely play country licks along to whatever. Learning a basic blues minor type scale over a major chord idea is a very different way of dealing with chord progressions that can come in handy. It expands your musical palette.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 8 Jan 2008 10:14 am

Sorry, this is OT but off of Bob's blog, I'm sure we've all had this certain emotion at one time or another.

"If those ass****s are still there I will skip the part were they dick me around and get straight to the part where I club them with a leg off my pedal steel."

You go, Bob!

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 9 Jan 2008 7:55 pm

Drew Howard...

"If those ass****s are still there I will skip the part were they dick me around and get straight to the part where I club them with a leg off my pedal steel."

Hey Drew great blues song. Is this the whole song or is this just the title?