The Predicted Absence Of The Melody In Music

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

I listened to an English translated interview from a German radio show this past week end that featured all four members of the Swedish singing group, ABBA. This interview was taped back in January of 1980. In that interview, Agnetha Fältskog (the blonde girl) and Benny Andersson (ABBA’s keyboardist) mentioned that North American music is losing, if not already lost, the art of creating melodies in their music and that the music industry on this continent will suffer this loss for generations to come.

This interview was done shortly after ABBA’s tour of Canada and the USA in 1979. In this interview they mentioned the move by the North American music industry promoters in the early 70s to shun European groups and promote local North American groups. This was during the period that Kiss, The Grateful Dead, The Doors and other like groups exploded onto the North American music forefront. If you go back and play those records of that period, this was also the same time period in which the use of a distinguishable melody stopped being heard in our music.

I found this 22 minute interview especially interesting because of the many discussions on this forum about how “Our music does not have a melody anymore”.

If the members of ABBA saw this coming 30 - 35 years ago, why are we so surprised now about our modern music and what it has become? Their prediction, without the slightest doubt, has become a reality.

Jack Francis · From: Queen Creek, Arizona, USA

Hell, if it had a melody how could those no talent folks in Gnashville sing it?? Whoa!

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Sad, but true. It is my opinion that much music on the radio air waves in this decade suffers from a lack of form and definition. Hard to beat a nice melody.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I don't fully agree. There is a pendulum effect and it does not swing back and forth at the same rhythm in all music styles. When country music definitely started to loose too much or it's initial appeal to me in the 90's I was surprised to find that new R&B had some of what I was missing in country music; melody, chords, progressions and rhythm. And there are other styles too who have evolved either way.
Melody is a though cookie anyway, as we seem to have a pretty inflexible concept of what is and what is not melodic. This has physical roots. On the other hand our acceptance towards chords and tensions and non natural progression can be bent much easier, and early accelerated development of modern American music has proven it from the late 19th century into the 1950's, where we saw an progression from still very basic musical concepts way into bebop and ultimately, free jazz.
Still, as far a melody, we have eased off non melodism quite a bit in most musical styles.
What has however happened, is the commercialism and therefor lack of "sincere" music and lyrics dictated by "suits" in management and marketing offices.
But that did not only happen now, in the old days, the high society, kings and even churches (up to a certain degree some of the later still can't resist the temptation to have their fingers in the game) would decide what was proper and "nice", and who would make it and who not and it's not like country music suffered a self imposed censorship and commercial thinking only now... it started from day one, when a little town along the Cumberland river started to have itself called the home of country music... if that was not the case, steel guitar would never have become the number one countryfying instrument.

... J-D.

Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

JD,

You have a wonderful way with words and I really respect most of your highly insightful posts. However, in this discussion, I'll share what I tell my musically "inspired" friends at chrurch as concerns "praise" music.

The old hymns didn't last for years because they were so inspired. They lasted because they were simple 3 chord songs with tuneful melodies that could be easily rememebered. So too with country music. The garbage the Gaylords are spewing out in the name of new country is... (fill in the blanks)
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Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4

RC Antolina

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

JD, you point was well written; however, I don’t agree with you that most of us as musicians are inflexible in our interpretation of what constitutes a melody. I do believe what most of us interpret as a defined melody is a scripted score that can be hummed, whistled or played and the musical score, without the lyrics, can be identified almost immediately.

The Beatles are a classic case in point. Though many of their hits songs were bordering on cartoon nonsensical wording, the musical score that backed those lyrics were easily identifiable and could be played on almost any instrument with or without lyrics. I have heard many of their songs, (exe, Hey Jude) played by symphony orchestras.

The four members of ABBA were all gifted song writers and musicians and all of their music displayed that gift. Their hits were loaded with clearly and non-questionable and identifiable melodies that could be played with or without lyrics and on almost any instrument.

Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

What Les said.
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The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.

Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4

RC Antolina

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

this is especially true in todays "rock" music. any drop tuned guitar with someone screaming a monotone cookie monster rant over it passes for "awesome".

sadly, in my own writing, melody is the weak point...because writing an interesting and catchy melody requires something called talent and I am woefully short on that. Those that are great at it (Cobain) can be wildly successful and deservedly so.

someting to strive for in my own work, tho as I said...it dont seem to come naturally for me and forcing things is rarely good Ive found.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Les, RC, first thanks for your comments. I do not disagree with you and I meant in no way to argue with you, but I think that one thing that always seems to have forced music to change is, that some, and especially those who invented a particular "new" style, turn out to bore themselves pretty quickly.

Let me give you an example: In the 80's in English and German speaking parts of Europe mostly, Rockabilly saw a big revival which lasted for about a decade. Mostly, it was kids digging Elvis, Cash, Lewis, Vincent, Cochran and so forth, I mean, many were just in their teens.
Carl Perkins came to Zürich, in the mid 80's. By then many of "us" had formed hillbilly and rockabilly bands which had a very authentic sound. So, knowing that Perkins was coming was a big thing. Well, Perkins not only had gray (fake) hair, but also a modern looking guitar and a whole repertoire of brand new songs we had never heard. Many left discontent, as their star failed to have stuck to sing about Blue Suede Shoes and a Matchbox only. He had progressed. Come to think of it, how else could it be? Could we really expect from one of the revolutionary creators of Rock & Roll and a very new approach to guitar playing and music in general to have turned a wandering museum of gone by times?

It's not music only which changes, WE change and our taste too as our horizon widens, and then, we change music.

I remember in the 80's too, how (in Europe at least) you could find a lot of Swing and also Dixie Land Jazz bands. I, back then, proudly predicted Rock & Roll would gain the same "classical" status... and to a certain degree, I was right, but as the middle age crazies of the 80's slowly turned old or passed, Dixie Land bands have become more and more scarce... maybe, so will Rock & Roll, traditional country, heck, maybe even blue grass bands after a last rebound. And then, who knows, maybe the pendulum will swing back again big time.

The last 100 years of musical evolution many have dared to explore what I deem to have been the limits of music (free jazz actually managed to over step the limits in some cases, I feel). We have already experienced a pendulum effect off these limits in most broad musical styles.

Will country ever be "country" again? I doubt it. Then THE country has changed too... country folks live a different life nowadays in most cases... the old stories don't relate anymore. Nothing in life has ever proven to be like it was again.
This may also influence the "inspiration(s)" for inspirational music. I don't involve myself much with that kind but I would still be tempted to suspect that it is the lack of inspiration in todays life styles which may adversely affect related music(?).

... J-D.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Maybe it will change some day I hope,for the present [except for a few rare exceptions]not much out there will have a nice melody,A nice melody is one that can be played as an instrumental and be recognized,I was NEVER a Beatles fan,but two of my favorite songs are Yesterday and Something,both had a beautiful melody,How often do you hear something new that can compare with something like Misty,Stardust,Moon light in Vermont,Stars fell on Alabama,Ga on my Mind,Twilight Time,Crazy,or songs written by country artist such as Cindy Walker,Harlen Howard,or Hank Sr,Even the soft rock groups of the 70's did songs with great lyrics and melodies,Today such %^$# as Bo-donk-a-donk,or Batter,Batter,Batter,is considered GREAT song wtiting,[Yes I know this crap makes millions]That the problem It's about the big bucks,to hell with the music,don't you know.
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Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

One can only wonder, if in some distant future place of higher learning, a student will endeavor a thesis proposing the decline of societal values being proportional to that society's decline in musical values.
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.

Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4

RC Antolina

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

maybe if i wear a long coat and a top hat, no one will notice how bad i am.

Jack Francis · From: Queen Creek, Arizona, USA

Whew....I'm getting a headache! Mad

Methinks there is too much thinking, it's really just the plain truth that..THERE JUST AIN"T NO MELODY THERE...and most of todays singers couldn't find it if there was!! Oh Well

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Truthfully, I would not say that our younger singers of today could not do justice to a beautiful melody in a song.

I have heard Lorrie Morgan sing Memories and it blew me away. I heard Martina McBride sing Misty Blue at a concert about ten years ago and the girl absolutely confounded the audience. I have also heard Carrie Underwood do a couple of the old standards and the girl is second to none in putting out the slower songs that once stopped us in our tracks.

I really do think that its what is being pushed by the producers and promoters, not the singers themselves.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

It's a weird world we live in friends. A world that has the umitigated gall to call rap and the crap they push outta Gnashville music.

Last I heard, music is an assemblage of pleasing sounds
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.

Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4

RC Antolina

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I think the ability to appreciate melody is what's disappearing, so there's less being sold. People are so saturated with melodic fragments from their TV that the idea of listening carefully to a song and a guitar solo, identifying the main theme, variation, the choruses and bridge is lost. You have to REMEMBER the beginning so as to appreciate the end - kaput.

Try watching TV with headphones on, and you'll notice that some 30-second commercials may each have 10 or 12 separate musical fragments. Every chase scene has chase music, but so does every conversation scene, every hospital-bed "sad" scene, every love scene, nowadays shows even bust out some pop singer at a bizarre moment and brag about it in the credits. News shows all have the football score music, the intro station blurb music, the news show theme music, it can add up to hundred of fragments per hour.

You can't buy groceries, gas or ride in an elevator or go to the dentist without being musically assaulted. Everyone "loves" music, but who actually listens? Even musicians.... One of the exercises I torture my guitar students with is listening, I have them identify and label the sections of one of their favorite songs, then we move to a longer jazz tune ("Kind of Blue" is a goldmine), then I try to get them to identify and label the structure of a 15-minute violin concerto - they think the idea of just listening to one thing for that long is insane, much less actually trying to understand it.

Many "musicians" I know have no idea what they're playing structurally, either. Since you'll never get more than a 15-second solo when you're a radio star, what's the point of having an attention span? Remember Duane Allman's 5-minute solos, that made sense? Kaput....

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

The problem is that now the "arrangment" is the main factor and years ago the melody and words were the main factor. How many versions of "Tennessee Waltz" has been recorded?
"Killing Time"..........???

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Contrary to what the teeny-boppers seem to think, all of music did not begin a mere ten or fifteen years ago. If one really knows what is in the musical library then it can be safely said that anything WORTH writing has already been written.

Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

Melody is not even REQUIRED for good music. Looking at ALL music through the lens of American popular music (or worse, country) is a very narrow view.

Among my music projects, I play in a middle eastern band. Much of our music is pure percussion - no melodic instruments at all! And it can be very composed and highly structured - real songs, not just beats.

Middle eastern music doesn't have "harmony" in the European sense at all. There are no chords, period. Melodies (which can be astonishingly beautiful) are based on scales called maqams. Maqams may have different notes depending on whether you're ascending or descending, and they often have quarter tones - notes in between the 12 notes we use in western music. To many Americans, it just sounds "weird" or "out of tune"... and therefore it's bad music, right? It's easy to write off the work of musicians who have spent a lifetime perfecting their craft, who are carrying on traditions ten times (or more) older than country music - easier than trying to educate yourself about their music, to understand where they're coming from, to appreciate rather than to sneer anyway.

I've been adapting the lap steel guitar to middle eastern music, learning to play maqams on it. It's lame and pitiful by the standards of REAL middle eastern musicians, but I try! And then I turn around and try to play country on the same instrument. Good music is good music, and no genre has a monopoly on good.

Just because it isn't the music of your own culture, or you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't music - or that it isn't GOOD music.
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Mark Lind-Hanson · From: Menlo Park, California, USA

To imply that the music of the Grateful Dead lacks melody or "inspired melody" belies the writers real ignorance of the music they actually made.
One might make a better & much finer argument that the rise of rap music will be responsible for the future passing of melody from American music than the era of "Kiss and the Grateful Dead, etc"- at some point, that could be looked on with nostalgia as perhaps the finest hour of American improvisational art since the jazz era.
But hey- everyone on this board is highly opinionated and you can't expect to sway anyone off their high horse once they are up and ridin'.

Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

Mark Lind-Hanson · From: Menlo Park, California, USA

Well you may think you got me there, but, really, most rap follows formula of meter,(tres predictable!) and show me please where is melody involved. If there are people doing rap and hip hop who are more primarily melody oriented than poetry oriented, I would like to see 'em. Anyway, improvising with one's mouth is a skill a long way from improvising with one's fingers, which was more my point.

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