The Steel Guitar Forum

I just got a new MacBook and want to record lessons with my students to Garage Band or other app, then burn that to CD. This replaces my Tascam 4-track Porta01, which I use with a Shure SM-58 for my speech, and direct line out from NV400 amp.

So, gang: what's a good, simple, effective way of handling this in the digital realm?

Per the mic: years ago we used to get great recordings with just 2 little flat mics, condenser I think, they were designed for conference room tables I think. Would one of these work well for this scenario here? What are those mics called?

If something is better (a little mixer, USB mics, etc.) I'd sure love to know.

Thanks, experts!

------------------
E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/Carter SD-10/Webb amp/Profex II+Lexicon MPX-110 OR Line 6 Pod XT

John, why not use the mike you already have? The name of the flat wall mike is a boundary mike. JP

Or you might be referrng to a PZM mic, originally Crown made these but I gather Radio Shack has a cheap version of thiss little flat mic, the Crown units were quite good.

your Shure is fine, or you might upgrade to Sennheiser 421 (300-ish) or (for stereo)try a couple of these new chinese Large Diaphragm Condenser types which are ike 75 or 100 bucks.

Use a 57...they use'em every day in Nashville on steel.

------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

The SM-58 is fine for vocals,
but will not be terribly kind to instruments.

A low end condensor mic,
or relatively flat dynamic mic would be better.
If you want to sue the Mac's I.O.
then a simple battery powered condensor mic for DAT or Mini disc players will
fit righ in the jack... at least on a G4,
not sure on the powerbook.

There are a number of powerbook compatible simple Input output and monitoring boxes available.
But the simplest is just a 10- dbm output mini mixer going to the Mac mic inputs.

Ditto to the 57 if you are going to just record the steel. I also have the Radio Shack PZM (Pressure Zone Mic) and I get real good results with it. It is a condenser mic and uses one AA battery. It is supposed to hear sound more like your ears do. I have placed it on the floor beside me when playing in a band and got a pretty darn good sound. I have never taped it to a wall, but I think that is the preferred way of doing it. Many years ago when I bought it, I was told that it was actually a Crown that didn't come up to specs. May have not been true, but that is what the salesman told me. I think I paid about $40.00 for it when I got it. It is the mic I use anytime I am in the audience in a situation like a steel jam or other concert. I just get a better quality sound and mix than using other mics in this application.

I recently purchased a ribbon mic from shinybox.com and these things ROCK. Very smooth and musical, and very inexpensive. I brought it to my last studio session and the engineer liked it better on my steel amp than any of the more expensive mics he had in the studio. It works great on acoustic guitar as well as vocals (use a windscreen!!). I haven't tried it on my dobro yet.

Crafty

you put the PZM on a 1 to 2ft square of plexiglass, you caan use pairs of these for drums, choirs, etc.

Great tips everyone, thanks.

A steel student who's also a producer/engineer also recommend the Radio Shack PZM mics. I recall getting great sound from a pair of those into a simple cassette boom box, both mics just stuck to the wooden bandstand railing at a club I was playing in years and years ago. I'm leaning towards that, just effective, quick, cheap, easy. I'm only interested in decently capturing the lesson audio, nothing more.

I recorded a whole bluegrass album,
in a NYC Bleeker St apartment,
with a pair of Crown PZM's on the underside of a plastic disk,
aim downwards at about neck level.

A Neuman U87 sticking up through
the felt covered top for lead vocals.

A D-12 on the floor for bass,
and 2 Senneheiser 441's cris-crossed over head for backing vocals.

This was mixed live direct to DAT.
Take a pass, check the mix on the Martin Logan speakers, tweak a bit,
and then start playing. Very simple.

The soloists took a step in towards "the tree"
for more volume on licks and solos,
and backed off for rhythmn.

The instruments were a 1934 Fern F-5
1927-29 Mastertone banjo (composite of best 3 parts of 3 banjos)
and 1931 Martin 0028 guitar,
plus my '54 Kay bass.

This was around 13 years ago, and people
are still buying copies last I heard.

I just ordered a Shiney Box mic, to test it.
$231 delivered for a ribbon mic,
I can't pass up.
I am sure it will find uses one way or another.

I saw Al Terhune got one and likes it.

David,

I think I got the Shiny Box thing started arounded here==I have had a pair of 46's and a 23 for a good while now. I am amazed that most electric guitar players pick the Shiny over the Royer 121s when given the unmarked fader test with alarming regularity... Very good investment.

Yeah I thought so too.
Can't wait to hear it.

Might give an interesting dobro sound,
and retro vocal sound too.

I still want a AEA R44... just to have.
Wes did a super job making them.

John, finished,master recordings are rarely a reproduction of the original sound. It is normal to enhance the sound to "someones" taste. Therefore, cheap mics can surprise a lot of purists, after they hear the finished recording.
I have read lengthy comments about the choice of mics. Some of them recommending that you try a cheap mic to see if you like the sound. You never know, you might like the "colored" sound better that the original sound. EQ controls on the playback system can be adjusted to your taste.
Yes, those little electret mic cartridges used in boom boxes can capture a surprisingly accurate reproduction of the original sound. They do need a voltage applied to them by the preamp you connect then to (roughly 3 volts DC).


------------------
www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

Hi David,

I recently got the ShinyBox 46MXC, and while I really liked the 23, the 46 has a fuller, more life-like sound. Right now (and I say "right now" because Jon is working on a superior ribbon), the output is less than the 23 (a little disappointing), but the payoff with the sound is well worth it. And it depends on what you're going to record. It's a great cabinet mike--especially for bass, but I also use it for fiddle and vocals, the vocals being more demanding of a higher output. And, of course, I use it to mike my Peaveys (and Magnatones with my lap) when I don't record direct with my pedal steel.

You'll love your 23.

Al

Well I got told my Shineybox 23 is in town,
but I can pick it up for 3 days...

So WHY TELL ME!!!

Ok, one Shineybox ribbon mic in hand.

We did background vocals on 3 songs,
but that was 6 tracks on each song
from 3 different singers, and in several varied styles
from smooth, sweet & slightly sad
to Van Halen yelps and stacato hits.

We got a pretty good blend in general.
And the mic imparted no anomolies that
bade the vocal stacking harder in an way.

I do have 2-3 hours of anal retentive mix blending
before all the different things are melded,
but it will work fine.

It is rather low output as expected,
But workable.

We didn't try an 2 singers or group,
using figure eight, but will try that soon enough.


I wanted to try it on lead guitar, but we didn't record any.
Next is a test on dobro, and then steel in the amp.

All in all a nice addition to my mic locker,
and really fine for the price.
But being a ribbon mic, it's NOT for the novice,
ribbons are quite fragile by nature.
They do need special care.
Never in 48v phantom power,
go real easy on the poppin' P's and windy sibilences.
Even if it can handle 165 db levels.
And more fool you if you let it fall.