The Steel Guitar Forum

This was suggested by Paul Franklin Jr.'s reply on Herbie's thread. To paraphrase Paul, it would be nice if we discussed differences of tonal techniques rather than to debate... I fully agree! It wasn't that long ago that the forum was entrenched with these type of discussions; which BTW, benefit me much more.

I'm not in a position to offer too much advice, but I am of the opinion that "it's" in the hands. So, how does one best structure a developmental process to improve their tone? What are the various techniques for enhancing tone? How does knowing theory help in understanding the tone we want to create? I can go on and on, but I can really use the input from everyone. I don't think there's one right answer, but I think that some may be better suited for me than others. How 'bout it?

My input!
Each persons expression of tone, which is in the hands and the use of the bar, is an individual thing. It is just like the voice of a singer. Each singer has his or her's own distinct tone or sound or expression of sound. I might be able to emulate someones else's distinct tone of their playing, but to be able to play exeactly like they do on every song would be nearly impossible, because we each have our own interpretation of what we want a given song to sound like from our own experience in playing the PSG. Tone is definitely in the hands, the bar and our own expression of it, which is an inherent individual thing with each person, because our own different personalities in way we express ourselves.

So, how can we share our accomplishments and/or knowledge to foster ideas, transfer of innovation, technique? I'm not asking how to sound like somebody else, but how can we share individual knowledge to a common goal of getting better tone, better as a player, etc.?

I really don't want to stir debate, but to capture the intent of what PF was suggesting. A dialogue to learn from, not to argue and debate.

Hi Tim,
My intent was not to stir a debate, but to explain what I felt is part of an answer to your question.
Your quote:
So, how can we share our accomplishments and/or knowledge to foster ideas, transfer of innovation, technique?
I can best share what I have developed by playing for you, or anyone else. Then you will observe and hear my technique which will be different then anybody else's due to my experience and length of time playing. How I do it is hard to explain or put into words, but I can show or demonstrate it to you. We are all so different I guess.
If I have upset you I am very sorry, sincerely.

I think that one of the best ways to improve one's technique, touch, etc. is to record yourself. If you have a web cam - even better.
On playback, you can quickly tell what needs work. Intonation is king. I think many enthusiasts(including myself) can become so focused on pedals, levers, string grips, speed, etc. that we sometimes let that slip by.
Dave Little

Tim...I've always used fairly light picks filed down to a fairly sharp point. I recently changed to heavier, blunter picks and have noticed a considerable improvement in my sound. That might not work for you but picks can make a significant difference. In case you missed it, Maurice Anderson, one of the best steel guitarists of all time made a post on Nov 19 06 titled "The Elements of Tone". Before it turned into a peeing contest over semantics he listed several right and left hand techniques that affect tone/sound that I found very helpful.

Happy New Year Tim: Glad to see your interest in this wonderful steel guitar world.
For what it's worth, here is one of my suggestions concerning your subject matter:
Should you have access to an acoustic six string, non amplified steel guitar, practice a lot on this instrument in the quietness of your home. The method of personal "attack" on the strings will be noticeable right away-more so than on an amplified pedal steel with volume pedal, etc. Keep working on obtaining a pleasing sound (tone) that satisfies you first of all. Also, you can practice on your pedal steel without the amplifier - if you are in a very quiet room. Your personal delivery of the "attack" you give the strings affect the overall tone quite a bit. If you can satisfy yourself on an acoustic instrument, this sound will more than likely be repeated on your electric steel-providing all the variables added by the amps, vol. pedal, etc do not overide. Practice is the key word, but has to be done properly. Bad practice techniques is just that, and will result in eliminating all you are trying to perfect.
Happy New Year!

Bill Stafford

What Dave Little said!

Also, play along with recordings and with different people whenever you can, and try to make your sound "fit in" with what the singer or the rest of the band is doing.

Robert, no feelings hurt here; thanks for your post.

Bill, Happy New Year to you as well! Thanks for your advice.

I can take from each of these posts an opportunity to learn and get better. The advice of using a recorder of some form, or fashion will definitely open ones eyes. It'll hurt your feelings a little bit the first few times. I never realized how much I overplayed until I recorded. Then I started learning how to listen to what I was playing in the overall context. Great learning tool!

I've tried playing my steel "acoustically" and always resorted to turning on the amp. I guess it didn't sound too good! I'll take Bill Stafford's advice and try to learn how to play my steel unplugged. It makes sense that if I can make it sound good without an amp, then it should transfer to better results when plugged in.

Thanks everyone! Any other ideas?

Have you ever tried to write your own stuff? I have found it really opens some doors. There aren't any melodies to follow; only melodies to create. Now there's not a preconcieved mindset on what your supposed to play. It requires every element of what has been suggested. I guess it can be limiting if you can't put a song together. But, unless you're writing for a living, what's the harm?

Let's stop talking about it and do it!

I get my richest, loudest tones when my right hand is about halfway between the bar and the bridge. As I move it closer to the bridge, it loses volume and becomes thinner.

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Tim,

We covered this subject when you were here for a "Boot Camp". If we get time I'll discuss your questions with you in detail in B,Ham in a few weeks.

Mike

Some great suggestions here, including recording yourself, or listening to live gig recordings (even more revealing), and playing unplugged.
I've put in quite a bit of time practicing while changing minute aspects of my attack or hand position- just the angle of the fingerpicks hitting the strings makes a huge difference. I can get my own "tone" closer to that of some other players with a lot of concentration on various small differences.
But when I release my focused concentration and "just play", I go back to sounding like me. For better or worse, it seems pretty entrenched.
I've found things like intonation and bar control to be easier to "change" than my basic tone.
I really admire the ability of some of our brethren here to emulate various styles and players. In my case at least, I think there's a nearly subconscious desire to produce a certain "sound", and between my amp and effects adjustments and my attack and hand positioning, that's what I get.

Mark..... What's better than sounding like yourself? I'm sure we all pick things up from other players but style is a personal thing. You may be able to copy someone else not for note but it's hard to capture their feeling. The trick is to perfect our own unique sound.

Don, indeed, although it may depend on the situation- Paul F., for instance, is a master at emulating various players and styles, which beyond being entertaining to steel fans, is I'm sure a good reason for his high visibility in the studio scene. Other players here seem to switch effortlessly between several "main styles" that are very different in tonal content.
I've noticed great variations in my recorded output, sometimes purposeful, but other times I think a result of differences in mood or even my unconscious reactions to the musical material and studio vibe.
My live "sound" seems to be more consistently "me", for better or worse. I've been criticized for "not sounding very 'Nashville'", but it does seem to fit in well with the wide variety of different bands I find myself playing with.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty happy with my "sound" generally. It's helped a lot to find and settle on a rig that gives me repeatable sonic results.
Tim's original questions certainly bear a lot of scrutiny- what indeed can we do to improve or develop our tone, or refine what we already like about it? A lot of subtleties that beg attention.

How does knowing theory help in understanding the tone we want to create?

- what a great question. In my case, knowing where I am in a song theoretically allows me to suspend concentration on the mechanics of the progression, and focus more on musical subtleties and nuance, where I think a lot of the beauty lies.
Oddly, one would think that would make the third or fourth take in the studio a "better" one, but often it seems unfamiliarity with the tune brings out different creative connections.
It's certainly fun and educational to ponder, even if a lot of it remains a mystery.

Thanks everyone. Mike, I haven't forgotten; just still working at it!

Thanks for the replies.

I've been working on some Tom Brumley stuff over the last couple of months. Tom's style is very different from what I've been playing. I have found that when trying to learn new styles, my tone develops. I guess as we practice, technique improves. But, for me at least, I find that my tone seems to be developing into something better. Is it the new lick, or chord in my repertoire? I say yes. The more we have to pull from as far as licks and chord inversions, the more color and flavor we can add to what we're playing.

I agree that until the picks and bar hit the strings, there's nothing to listen to. But, doesn't mental preparation play a key role in our execution? I know that my lack of music theory is limiting. I can only speak for myself, but the steel guitar challenges my musical knowledge more than I care to admit. I know this and hope to work at changing this aspect. Do I think the execution is any easier? No. But, when I consider my abilities, I see my biggest road block as the lack of knowledge. I think that the technique and skills develop with practice. I'm certain that it is not a requirement to understand music theory to play this machine, but it seems to create a huge hurdle for those of us that don't know much.

Yes, it truely is a quest trying to find that tone!

TIM
While reading the above replys, I read BILL STAFFORDS first, and could not agree more , from my own experience, The Accoustic Steel, E tuning, practice brings out several different tones, Gets me out of the rut picking the same old thing ever time I start to practice, Also helps ln learning to use the Bar

Then I read BOBBY LEE'S reply, I agree Bobby is right on, I also change my tone by moving my picking hand, farther away from the pick up, Like Bobby said, about half way between the Pick up and my Bar position, or back over the Pick up, for a sharper sound,
Also, I haven't seen where anyone mentioned the kind of Bar they use, I have three favorite Bars, I can hear the different sound from each of these Bars,
I never tried to sound like any other Steel Player,,,ha,,There was none but Lap Steels, on the Radio and in Joints when I first got my paying gigs, also found that I could not play like other Steel Players, when I got my PSG, I kept tossing in the old Lap steel back up, and what few complete tunes I could play, The Pedals just made it easier, no slanting the Bar.

Herbie

Trying a new number, without the amp, is okay. Then I go onto the Amp. turn up close to live playing level, and start working on the bar control, right hand mutes, pick angles, and miniscule volume pedal movement to minimize attack on certain notes picked.......that's very much the way I do it....

NIC
I listened to some of your tunes, I love the ones, where I can hear, The Emotion, Making those strings cry, I have had many people at gigs, explain, They love That Crying Steel Guitar, so I assume I am subconsiously picking some of my emotions into the Tune, or adding emotional back up to the Vocal's

I rarely mute the strings with my Picking hand, yes I have tried, on slow tunes, It just don't work for me. I find it easier to Mute by lifting the Bar, and muting with the fingers behind the Bar, Good Picking On Your C D's

Herbie

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