The Steel Guitar Forum

I might be pressing my luck, but after the great response to my first questions here, I am going to try posing some more. If you are wondering why this crazy person is asking these nutty questions, you can refer to the personal info in my previous post (http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/013833.html):

1) What would your estimation be of how many steel players make their living exclusively from studio work? Has it grown? Shrunk? When was the heyday? Has the rate been adjusted for cost-of-living? Would anyone be willing to provide dollars and cents numbers for how pay scales have changed, or what they are now? (by private email correspondence would be fine, of course).

2) Have most studio steel players also accepted live/touring work? Is there a network in places like Nashville so that folks can cover for each other when they are on the road?

3)Do/did a lot of steel players supplement their incomes with other kinds of musical/non-musical work? Are there networks for sharing that kind of information, too? (I know that in the rock and jazz scenes that I have been involved with, there tend to be "grapevines" for musician-friendly seasonal work: landscaping, construction, warehouse work, retail, office temping, etc.)

4)Has the working environment of studios changed a lot over the last 20, 30 or 40 years? I am interested even in little details, like whether or not you can smoke, drink, or go to the restroom while "on the clock," or whether one has to deal with more or less unpleasant interpersonal experiences while in the studio (jerky producers, abusive engineers, moody artists, etc.)Is it better now than in the 60s, 70s or 80s? Worse? The same?

Thanks again for all of your help!

4) Yes it has changed completely in the last 10 years. The majority of large studios have gone out of business, and the majority of those that remain are about to go out of business.
Most music for films, TV, jingles, and even CDs is done by one guy with Pro Tools (or equivalent) in his garage (or equivalent) who works alone and calls in musicians or singers only as needed. When there are just 2 guys in a garage, work rules can be rather informal. In the old days it was always 50 minutes on and 10 minutes off.

Current scale rates are listed of the Nashville AFM website www.afm257.org

A lot of producers just buy one of those CDs with steel samples and cut and paste whatever licks and fills they need from that and think it sounds fantastic.There are a few steel sessios here and there but the vast majority of the ones I've played on in the last 5 years have been on records of bands I was in that I've produced myself in my own studio. There still seems to be some real master session work in Nashville for the top 5 or 10 guys who probably get anywhere from scale to triple scale.Demo sessions anywhere are usually anywhere from "spec" (zero) to $100 per tune or per hour - maybe more depending on how bad the guy wants you. It's a cold bowl of chili out there these days.

The Nashville AFM website includes scale for orchestrators and copyists!

1. Impossible to say now, but not too many outside of Nashville. Shrunk. The pay scales for master sessions are around $400 per. Wild guess would be early 60s right before the Beatles hit. Good period was right after Urban Cowboy came along. There have always been a handful of Nashville players who made good livings through today.

2. There was a time when a session player would never be associated with road work.

3. You are talking about part time players when you talk about them doing yard work and such.

4. The studio world is totally wasted from what it used to be. It is worse than it ever was. The nit picky stuff you mention is not even worth commenting on.

When I first started doing sessions, here in LA, in the early 70's, I was playing B3 on porno sound tracks, which usually amounted to noodle in the Dorian mode. It paid $45, a cheeseburger, a lot of beer and was always good for a few laughs.

I started doing sessions on film scores in 1984. At that time composers were looking for unusual sounds and the steel guitar with "extended techniques" had a lot of them.

I had the good fortune to work for Thomas Newman for over a decade, we were treated like royalty with catered sessions and it was all union so there was a "back end", the Special Payments Fund.

As the entertainment business became more corporate, where the top "grinds" the bottom for more profits, the budgets got smaller. Why pay for an expensive score, when it may not be needed. (I have a friend who was the producer of the Star Trek and DS9 effects. He was complaining that he needed a bigger budget so the effects could look better. He was told that Paramount had done a study and found that the audience didn't care if they looked better.)

At the same time there were technological advances in samplers, and recording environments, that have made all but the best players virtually unnecessary.

The "big stuff" now seems to be the video game market.

Most of the sessions I've done, over the past few years, have been, I get an e-mail with a MP3 and instructions on what to do to it, I burn a cd and mail it back. I receive a cd with a ProTools session. I put it up, record my parts and burn a ProTools session and mail it back. I used to say that composing is a singular occupation, and now it seems that, playing is also.

It used to be that there were a bunch of talented musicians all hanging out and recording in a "round-robin" sort of way, where we were "bouncing" off one another. It made for a tremendous camaraderie and that's what I miss the most.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by chas smith on 13 December 2006 at 11:17 PM.]</p></FONT>

I was surprised to see the club scale so low.5 years ago a good player would laugh at you if you offered less than 100 bucks for 5 hours.Most got a buck 50.And we have plenty of half ass players working 4 pieces and getting a 100 for 5hrs.

Sorry, not my intent to hijack the thread.

well from what i have read it sure sounds like the old days was a lot better as far as recording, fun wise. where you could hear whats going on instead of just your part of the song. i know that some of the great players have stores where they sell psg's and supplies etc, in the 70's a lot of the bands had a steel player travel with them but now days most do not that i can see. when they are going to record a song they just get someone to play the steel part and thats that. i don't know what to do about all this the only thing i could suggest is that we support the studieos in a stronger manner. but this is no different than anything else, time changes things and people change with the times for better or worse. i myself don't have much of a problem cause i preform by myself with back up tracks.

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zum SD10 peavy session 400 peavy XR600G
if its not a zum steel it isn't real
just trying to steel for the Lord>

<SMALL>it sure sounds like the old days was a lot better as far as recording, fun wise</SMALL>

IMO it is much better now. I never have to endure "getting drum sounds" anymore, nor any of the other things that made recording drag on and on.
Also I like it now because there is much less pressure. You don't have to play it safe when you are laying down multiple tracks in Pro Tools.

"You don't have to play it safe when you are laying down multiple tracks in Pro Tools"

I recently played on an album where I got "scratch" vocals, bass, rhythm guitar and drums. They told me to load up the tracks and they would cut it in with the lead guitar, who was doing the same thing in Austin.

I agree with Earnest about playing to Pro Tools. I usually just play with a track 2-4 times and then I'm done. They usually record the first time I go through the track (when I'm learning the song) and often that's what they use.

In terms of pay, I've been doing recording for about 10 years, and the pay is pretty similar now to then. I usually get paid by the song. The amount varies widely, anywhere between $30 and $250 per song, but the average is between $75 and $100. When I'm asked to name my fee, I always say pay me what it's worth to you, divided by your budget. Typically, I am paid more than I would have asked for. The positive aspect to this approach is I get on many more tracks on an album than if there was a fixed price per track, because there's no financial penalty for having me see if I can add something to a track they weren't planning to put steel on. Very often I first get called to add pedal steel parts, but end up also playing lap steel, dobro, or Weissenborn. This has worked pretty well for me, to the point where over half my session work is non-pedal, playing parts that would have ordinarily been played by other instruments.

I have played on maybe a half dozen tracks where I received writing credit due to what the artist considered was a significant addition to the song, but I've never gotten any money from any of these. It is nice to get the recognition, however.

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www.tyack.com

I've been waiting to reply till I could sit here for more than 5 minutes...

1) Exclusively from studio work? Wow... lots of guys have other studio type irons in the fire. It's a hard call. I've been doing it since '74. I took a road gig with Tammy Wynette from 1980-87, still doing studio stuff when I was home. Now, it's all studio stuff, but things are so up and down, I'm looking at other facets of the biz. There has always been the (roughly) same sized handful of us here in Nashville that have worked; just the names (and styles) have changed over the years.

2) Pretty much anyone will do anything, as long as they want to do it. A network? No, not per se; just word of mouth, mostly. Some guys are very protective of their gigs, because some other guys will take the low road and try to grab a gig out from under a guy. It's happened to me, so I speak from experience. (Some of the more protective ones can be ones with really nothing to fear; go figure.) I still have no problem recommending someone to cover for me, though, if necessary.

3) AFM stats say 80% of the membership are part-time players, folks with regular day jobs. However, the small percentage that does the film type work bring in the most money. It's not a balanced deal, at all.

4) It's different, but some of those things you mentioned are the same, really. Some egos are very fragile, and need to get the kid glove treatment. I prefer the honest approach. If you think what I'm doing is great or sucks, please just tell me. I hate the "Man, that was great, I'll use you on everything" deal, and never hear from them again.

I had a shot at a really good account a few years ago. The demo had this horrible steel on it, out of tune, out of pocket, everything. The producer was married to it, though. He really liked the demo thing. I tried for two hours to get close, finally dropped my picks and said, "C****, I'm sorry. I just cannot play that bad. I hate to disappont you, but I just can't do it." He "appreciated" my honesty, cut me a check, and I never got another call from him.

Back in the day, guys brought their little personal coolers with them with their beer, etc. in them and just set them down next to them at the sessions. (Except CC; he kept his out in the truck, and would "take a short break" when he needed to.) That kind of thing doesn't really happen any more. And not as many of the guys smoke these days as used to.

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Mikey D...


<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Michael Douchette on 14 December 2006 at 06:28 PM.]</p></FONT>

In Chicago, I am getting around $75 - $150 bucks a song (depends on if I double on another instrument) or $500 flat for a 10 song project (regardless of the time invested or amount of instruments played) I wish I could get more of those.

usually it is just a few per call.