I'm going to try to learn to play after 30 yrs!

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 23 Jun 2006 10:40 pm

Steel guitar that is! I've been considering it ever since I started recovering from my illness over a year ago. I have always loved the steel guitar and in my earlier years I even tried to emulate it's wonderful tones and licks on the lead guitar but after a few years of struggling and never being able to get it right I decided that I had better concentrate on lead guitar and if I ever got it mastered then I would take up steel.

Well let me tell you I realized about a year ago that I was never going to master the guitar or any instrument as far as that goes. I'm just not a Gregg Galbraith or Leon or Redd Volkeheart! It just ain't gonna happen.

So for the last year I have spent many hours trying to get back the chop I lost when I got sick and couldn't play for over 3 years. Well I soon realized that what you lose in 3 yrs is not going to be easy to get back but I'm a very stubborn guy and even today I keep trying to get back to being a player again. I don't know if I never was very good or if my sites are set much higher in my old age but I ain't even close to playing as good as I want to but I have realized one thing while trying to get back to playing again.

I ain't no spring chicken at 51 and I don't learn as fast as I use to and that's when I decided to quit kicking a dead horse and get on a new fresh one and giv'er a whirl!!

So that's where you guys come in I would like some suggestions on a good steel to start out on that can grow with me as I learn. Something that I can start out on that will be good enough to learn on but not so complicated that I will get confused and lose interest in it.

Do you guys think I should start out on a steel with all the knee levers and foot pedals and just not use them until I get more knowledge and need to use all the extra levers and pedals.

Or do you think I should start out with a steel capable of having all the floor and knee levers but not have them on so I don't get overwhelmed. Or just jump in with all the gusto of a hound dog and buy one with all the knees and floor pedals and just start out learning all of them.

Now if that's not enough to ask of you all we still have to decide what tunings to use along with copedents (whatever they are?) and learning materials. I am in a good spot to learn I know that because I have lot's of steel picken friends like Bobbe see Bobbe I told you to read this thread. This is where the paybacK comes in for me saving your life down at Gabes on that terrible black Sunday

I know you'll help me in any way you can but I really am just kidding about payback but what do ya think stay with the guitar or buy a steel and jump right in??????

If I did try to learn steel you might get tired of me up at your store

Seriously I feel the time is right for me to learn steel or at least learn as much as I can with the time the good Lord gives me to learn which I'm hoping will be many more years.

I have played with 100's possibly even 1000's of different steel players and the very worst sounded great as long as they kept the bar in the right spot

I have enjoyed steel players and their music all of my life and if there had been one around in my neck of the woods (rural deep rural illinois) when I 1st picked up a guitar I would have no doubt wanted to learn steel rather than lead but I was 18 yrs old before I met my 1st steel player so I was already well on my way.

So I'm anxious to read some suggestions from each and everyone of you guys and gals and don't sugar coat it I want to know which ways to go as far as learning and buying and practicing and just about everything about my road to learning the steel guitar.

Hey Mods if I made a bad decesion on where to place this post please feel free to move it where it belongs I just thought this forum would get the most feedback. I thought about putting it in announcements but then I thought who in the world would want to hear the big announcement that I'm gonna learn steel

thanks

Big Bob

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 23 Jun 2006 11:30 pm

Hey Big Bob, If you start now, You will have 25--30 years of steel playing ahead of you. I started 3 1/2 years ago, and I'm about your age--it don't bother me at all. GO FOR IT!! Get a steel with two necks, one for E9th for country, the other for C6th for swing. 8 floor pedals and 4 knee levers. Don't worry about useing all of it now, you will use all the pedals and knees as you learn more and more. At least you will have the basic setup to grow into. Pickup a good how-to dvd that explains clearly the basics and jump in. Find yourself a personal teacher, they will get your hands right, help you measure your progress, KEEP you progressing, ect. With your background, you probably have a great theory background already, so things will fall in place quicker/faster. Read this forum--it will fast trac you. And most important, don't forget to have fun on this journey.

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 24 Jun 2006 1:31 am

This is how I'm learning right or wrong. When I was a kid I took lessons on a ten string lap steel. Then layed off for over 30 years. Then I started learning some E9th pedals for a few months. I found that a little overwhelming at the time so I got a 12 string super slide and set in learning it almost a year ago. I've enjoyed the lap steel a lot and have played it more than any guitar I've ever owned. I feel like about 6 more months or so on this lap steel and I'll be ready to take on pedals again. For me playing without pedals and knee's at this stage of the game, has allowed me to concentrate on my hands more and I think that will help me down the road. I also don't use a volume pedal at this point and I think that's helping me learn proper pick attack to control the volume with my hands instead of a pedal.

I'll be fifty in a couple of months and I'm having a ball learning to play. Good luck in your quest!

Rick

Wally Taylor · Post by **Wally Taylor** » 24 Jun 2006 4:41 am

Hey Bob,
Welcome to the club. I started to learn the steel at age 56 and I am having a ball. Like you, I played lead gutar for many years, but always loved the steel. You have some very valid questions and you are lucky for there is a guy named Bobbe Seymour in Hendersonville that can answer all your questions and put you on the right steel at the right price. He has a store there called Steel Guitar Nashville and you can email him at sales@steelguitar.net. He can give you a one on one conversation and will do his best to accomodate your needs. Also, as a newbie, you will find this forum to be a great asset and the guys here have really been great to answer questions from us new guys. Have fun !
Wally Taylor

Don Walworth · Post by **Don Walworth** » 24 Jun 2006 4:41 am

"I ain't no spring chicken at 51 and I don't learn as fast as I use to"

Just a kid! You guys are just kids! My daughter just turned 50! I'll be 71 very soon.

Been playing (er -- making noise) since Feb.

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Don

West Coast Double 8 Nashville 112

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 24 Jun 2006 4:43 am

Bob, I think James had some good advice. You know a lot about music and you know the sounds you want. All you have to do is find where those licks are located on the steel. I can't give a lot of advice to a musician of your outstanding ability. It will take LOTS of practice to develop "the touch". A lot of players can play some decent licks but do not have "the touch".
Record your playing and critique yourself. You already know what it should sound like.
A double neck 10 string (D-10)with 8 pedals and 4 levers will do most all the licks you want to play. You might also consider a single neck universal 12 string (U-12) if you want to lighten your load.
Actually,if you are only interested in the "Nashville classic country" sound, You can do plenty of satisfying licks with one neck, 2 pedals and 1 knee lever. I have done some good country recordings with no more than that.
You are close to Bobbe's store. Pay him a visit and try some different steels.
You know how to contact me if you need anything at all............. JD

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www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

David Weaver · Post by **David Weaver** » 24 Jun 2006 4:52 am

I'm 62 and was told by a couple of steel players....Jeff Newman one of them....that I will never be good until I get out and play in a band.

I said Jeff, I am 60 years old (at the time) I have a wife, a business to take care of and you say I need to go out in smoky bars and play till 1 AM for $50 a night?

Jeff said "Yes"

So I did. I am not a good player, but I get out and do it and I get better. I also have learned a lot about music, audiences, the bar business, and how many cops patrol the roads at 3 AM.

Keep your job, certainly keep your marriage together, and if you wife, job and time can afford it and will let you...have fun and get out there.

I sure miss having Jeff around.

Alan Rudd · Post by **Alan Rudd** » 24 Jun 2006 5:36 am

I'm 48 now and just recently took up the steel after all those years of wanting one. I just kick myself for not starting years ago. I'm learning by leaps and bounds and usually always learn something each time I play it. Get you one, man. It's a blast, but I have to warn you, it's extremely addictive!

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 24 Jun 2006 5:37 am

We kid about age, but we're not getting older, we're getting better, with more expreience and musical knowledge.
I started out a couple of years ago (at 5 years older than you) with a cheap steel--not much tone, and one knee lever.
I was really disappointed and thought I'd made a total mistake.
I replaced it with a Carter Starter--four knee levers--and had much more fun playing around with the feet and knees. It's hard to be adventurous without the E raises and lowers. You can ignore them at first, but after a while you'll be wanting to see what you can do with a full copedant.

The whole process puts learning music in a new light, and keeps you thinking.

Ron Victoria · Post by **Ron Victoria** » 24 Jun 2006 5:58 am

I stopped playing for 30 years and 2 years ago decided to play again. It took some time to find a D-6 s'master. I now play as good as back then but different. I forgot how to read music but the music stays in your head. Good luck in your quest. I'm 57 now.

ron

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 24 Jun 2006 10:38 am

For those who do not know, Bob is an accomplished musician who has played lead guitar with opry stars and other big names. He has been very modest by not mentioning that. Keep that in mind when offering advice.
He also has years of experience in making recordings of instruments and bands.
With this kind of experience, he knows how to make "music".
Bob, quit being so rough on yourself and get a steel. I know you can play it, you rascal. You have more talent than most of us will ever possess.
Your only decision will be your steel guitar purchase. If you only want to play country, a single 10 string with 3 pedals and 4 knees will work. Knowing you, I think you should get a D-10 with 8 pedals and 4 knee levers.
My other advice is... DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT go to the Station Inn on monday night to listen to John Hughey. That can be a very humbling experience...hahaha

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www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

Joseph Meditz · Post by **Joseph Meditz** » 24 Jun 2006 10:43 am

Hi Bob,

I started playing only 6 months ago at age 57. Unlike you I had never even seen a steel in person until I went to the store to buy one. Regardless of how it happens, once you get hooked on the tone of a steel you jus' gots to have one!

As for the number of pedals and levers, I don't think you can have too many. I bought a new S10 Fessy. It has 3 pedals and 5 knee levers and splits. And even I have used all pedals and levers including a split. If you have them you will use them. That said, still, you can get by just fine with 3 knee levers.

But don't worry about being overwhelmed by the number of pedals and knee levers because there are plenty of other things to get overwhelmed about! This is why I get in an hour or two of practice every night and more on the weekends. But I enjoy every minute of it.

The important thing is to get started by getting a professional level instrument either new or used.

Good luck,
Joe

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 24 Jun 2006 11:30 am

Bob you got some great advice, and you have a good friend in Bobbe.

I liked those GFIs he had in his store. Take advantage of his weakness for losing money while he's inbetween rich women.

You might like the pickups a little thinner than the norm is all I can suggest.

I'm the opposite of your situation.

I started out on guitar, took a few years of classical and flamenco from a great teacher, and it all just went away as soon as I got my drivers license and found ways to get drunk and stoned.

Playing pedal steel after some lessons from a good teacher, another thing I suggest, with no shortage of them in Nvl, I devoted ALL of my time to it, and dedicated myself to not spreading myself thin.

That went on for a good quarter century. Never running out of things to try and play, or other than working incessant day jobs inbetween sleeping in three hour shifts to do both 5-7 nights/days a week not allowing me to do any of the things I wanted to do with it, I never seriously thought of doing anything else.

Time passed, and though I've played with what I consider the best guitar players in my area, along with a lot of the worst, I never got the "spark" until BP's Time Well Wasted came out, and I started buying Squiers. I played, and I bought, and I bought and I played, until I found the right guitar, a GLASATLT, and now, I practice three hours a day. Mr Seven's DVDs are on the way.

One thing I found was that after 6 months or so, of course given a lot of guitar basics years ago, and always having one within reach, that I realise I could've played about half of the guitar players that used to give me fits, into the ground instead of them being able to contaminate my serenity had I taken a few months and plugged in a tele..

The good ones, I still use for inspiration. I have weekly steel gigs out front as far as I need to, and now I can play a growing number of songs on the tele.

I played a steel gig with one of them named Moss on a spur of the moment at the largest paying job here, and it was great to be able to walk in with a tele that I knew I could play. He played it for a set, I played it, and went back to steel without feeling bad at all.

In short, I am soaking up everything in sight that I can for tele, and am surprised that I'm still able to "maintain" on my steel. I'm just not nuts about trying to learn ever little thing, roll, bend, or nuance that's out there like I have on steel.

Through the steel forum here alone, I've found never ending suggestions, and help for my new "romance", and have gotten nothing but encouragement all the way around.

I think probably that my part of giving all my spare time to honestly learning and playing my ASAT, plugged into my Weapons Center here in the basement has been holding my end up.

I don't know how long it will take before I'm satisfied with my tele picking.

I know that like the PSG, I'll keep the spark until I do. My left hand finally isn't bored to tears, as I told Lloyd when I played him some stuff over the phone a few weeks ago.

I don't know where my exhuberance comes from. Maybe I'm slightly "manic". I don't seem to pay as much attention to the "lows" anymore. Not when it comes to learning something new.

Go out and See Mr Hughey if you get a chance.

That beautiful juvenile sparkle in his eyes when you talk to him is what real youthful exhuberance is all about.

I hope I don't lose it when I "grow up".

It sure helped to pick up something "new".

I'm 53.

EJL

Richard Bass · Post by **Richard Bass** » 24 Jun 2006 2:51 pm

Go for it Bob, Can't hurt and it should be fun. I've been thinking about learning Dobro in my advanced years.
Richard

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 24 Jun 2006 3:03 pm

Hay Big Bob !
i didn't read all that was said here ,
But ! what ever you decide ! just have
fun at it . Iv been on and off for 50 years
trying to be like the big kids playing steel ,

With what you already know , just get a 6 or
8 string ! get a tape form Miss Cashdollar and
have some fun . before you know it you will
be like that red neck that said ! " Hay Man !
watch this !

Rock out Old Buddy !

Hick

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 24 Jun 2006 3:08 pm

Doubles Again ! Darnitol !
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Bob Hickish on 24 June 2006 at 06:19 PM.]</p></FONT>

Terry Bethel · Post by **Terry Bethel** » 24 Jun 2006 10:07 pm

Bob,
My suggestion would be a D-10 with 8 x 5.
Reason being, you can get the best of both worlds with a D 10. You already know how it is supposed to sound, country and swing (be bop, jazz) whatever they want to call it. I have heard you play and I have a feeling a lot of things will fall into place quickly.
I also played guitar for many years and when I learned something on the guitar I would also learn it on the steel.
All of the big chords that I play I learned first on the guitar. I was teaching at a music store in Sioux City , Iowa. There was a part time teacher(two days a week), he knew all the right chords and changes. I wanted to learn them and he wanted to learn how to play Chet style. So we swapped Chet style for chords. I made out like a bandit on that deal. You will find that the guitar and the steel guitar are very similar when it comes to moving the things you already know on guitar to the steel. Or at least I did.
Bob I know if your heart and mind are both on the same page, you will be amazed how fast you will learn. I am not saying you will be the best player in the world, but if you play the steel the way you have played the guitar, I can't wait to hear you,
Terry Bethel

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 25 Jun 2006 7:08 am

Wow guy's, what a nice bunch of replies, I really appreciate all the info. There are way to many to reply to each one of you guys individually so please accept my blanket thanks!

I am sooooo excited to get started especially with reading some of your comments like from a couple of you guys that told me it will be easier to learn coming from the guitar so that really stokes me up. Keep in mind that I've never set down behind a steel except one time and it was on Murph's steel. I sat down behind it and put on my own picks (he wouldn't let me stretch his out:-) and he told me where E was and told me to push down a pedal to turn it into an A so that I could play the 1st 8 bars of Steel Guitar Rag. Well it was a riot and after one attempt and laughter for 30 seconds Murph made me get up he said he was afraid of me breaking his seat LOL!! So that was my 1st and last big steel solo!!

So far I like the idea of getting a guitar that has everything on it right from the start and then as I learn I can start using the pedals and levers. I also know exactly the tone I want I've heard it on records for years I'll just have to learn how to obtain it.

Of course I've grown to love the sound of the Emmons guitar but I have heard many guitars sound every bit as good as the old PP Emmons so I've got a lot of decesions to make now. Unfortunantly cash will be a factor in what I get so I'll have to do some comparitave shopping but I'm really lookming forward to that.

Please keep the suggestions coming and thanks to each and everyone of you guys especially the ones that have responded thru email!! I love you guys!!

Big Bob

Dave Horch · Post by **Dave Horch** » 25 Jun 2006 7:12 am

Go for it! Just don't let string blocking (muting) bring you down in the beginning. It comes with a little time, but it does indeed come.

Regards, -Dave Horch

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 25 Jun 2006 9:32 am

Big Bob-Get to it and get going. You will find it a refreshing change from the guitar. As Terry has suggested, Get a D10 with 8 and 5 or even 8 and 8. With your talent , you'll be playing both necks in no time. I know you will love it just as I have all these years....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 25 Jun 2006 9:32 am

Probably the only pick blocking that will be going on in the beginning will be my dog in front of my steel blocking the flying picks coming at him as they fly off my fingers.

I have one dog that I've had to 10 years that lays out in the studio when I'm playing and sets right by my amp he loves the music I swear because when I'm not playing he lays on a bed I've made for him in the control room.

So as soon as I get a steel and start practicing I'll let you know where the poor bugger goes hee hee he will probably scratching at the door wanting out LOL.

I have stayed out in the studio for over 12 hrs and the only time Jersey (my pup) leaves is to potty I kid you not and of course when I have clients in you know not everyone likes dogs in the studio

I can see him now when I'm in the house and I say let's go practice the steel he'll run under the bed and hide. I know I'm just wasting bandwidth with my puppy story but it just tickled me to think about him and my new undertaking of the steel

Bob

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 25 Jun 2006 5:42 pm

from what John said it sounds like you are already way ahead of some of us...we may have to ask you for help

calvin

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 25 Jun 2006 9:53 pm

Hey Big Bob, you might concider joining your local steel association. In your area, you may find a real rich resource of some of the finest pickers on the planet! The help you can recieve from your local steel club is a phenominal place for entry level players to recieve help.

When you mention "Murph", is that Big Jim Murphy?

John Coffman · Post by **John Coffman** » 26 Jun 2006 3:51 am

James is correct about the local steel clubs. SETGSA has helped me stay motivated and we always have some teaching at the jams. You are never to old to learn. At age 39 I went back to school and completed 4 years of college in two years while working 50 to 60 hours a week. It was hard getting the spider webs cleaned out. Once I completed my degree I purchased my 1st steel and love every minute of learning.

Best of luck and have fun

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Thomas SD10 3/4,Thomas D10 8/5 and Desert Rose S10 3/4. Beginner

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 27 Jun 2006 3:16 am

Well I'm still getting lot's of ideas and am sure of a double neck steel and will probably buy one of the best ones I can find in my price range (around 250.00 that'll get me a good one right)

. James to answer your question yeah I was talking about Big Jim Murphy sorry I didn't put his whole name but I always just called him Murph. I normally don't like name droppers but in this one case I think Murph will be ok with my mentioning his name because it was vital to my funny little story. I wish you could have seen Murph's eyes bug out when I sat down on his 25 to 40 year old seat

I hear a lot of good things about older MSA's and I think I'll give them a look. I'm going to try to get up to Bobbe's this week and just look around and kick some tires. Bobbe I hope you have a sturdy seat I can set on LOL. No I'm not quite as big as I was when I sat on Murph's seat. So hopefully it will be ok.

Once again thanks guys for all of your helpful suggestions. I only have to find the right steel and I'll be on my way!

Bob