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Topic: Panther Hall recordings |
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2006 7:42 am |
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In the thread now in "Electronics" about Lloyd Green's amp on the Charley Pride "Live at Panther Hall" album, there's a link to a 2002 thread concerning that album, IMO one of the best steel albums ever. In that thread, Lloyd himself tells of an additional 90 minutes of recorded material presumably languishing in RCA's vaults. Gerald Menke says in that thread that he works for the company that owns RCA, and he proposes to look into tracking those recordings down. What ever became of that??? I'd sure love to hear more music from that night!
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Chris Forbes
From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2006 9:53 am
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| I'll second that. |
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Tore Blestrud
From:
Oslo, Norway
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Posted 9 Jun 2006 12:06 pm
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I wish there was some way we could influence the recordcompany to release the unreleased recordings. If it's anywhere close to the quality of the released recordings it must be the "second best live album"  |
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Bob Simmons
From:
Trafford, Alabama, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2006 4:17 pm
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| There's an oldie-- used to play there with Wayne Kemp-- Wyne Stewart was there- let the party begin....... |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2006 4:22 pm
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| That thread from 2002 started as a question about that weird droning noise that happens during the "The ICC is checkin' on down the line" verse of Six Days On the Road. I always wondered about that too! Lloyd answers that question. But another notable thing happens during that same song: the roar of applause from the crowd after Lloyd begins his solo (2nd half of the break) with a killer lick. How many of you have ever had that happen to you??? (except possibly at a steel jam or convention) Charley may have made some gesture that egged them on, but still...That's Lloyd! [This message was edited by Brint Hannay on 09 June 2006 at 05:25 PM.] |
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2006 6:18 am
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Funny, I just read that thread about which amp Lloyd used, and was reminded of my efforts to get "Panther Hall Vol. 2" released. I had the pleasure of speaking to Lloyd on the telephone not long after I posted that thread, what a gentleman! A few things happened.
I struck up a friendship with the man who runs the vault for BMG, who connected me with a special projects guy, who filled me in on what would be required to get the rest of the show or some of it released. RCA had no interest in plowing money into an album with such limited commercial potential, so I talked to a guy running a big indie in Nashville. We got the idea of doing a licensing deal for Vol. 2, whereby RCA would produce the CDs, we'd essentially just buy them and sell/market them through this particular indie. RCA came back with an offer of, I believe it was a minimum order of 10,000 cds at around 5 dollars a piece, at which point I realized the project was not going to be realized, without some help from an angel investor. Not long after I posted my query, the chairman left the company, as a result I had even less cache then I did before... But I did get confirmation from my friend at the Vault, that a box exists with the reels from Panther hall, so sad that they just sit there, isn't it. I did what I could, but just couldn't see anyway to get the thing out without the capital I needed to make it happen, it was disappointing to get so close to getting this music released, but in the end, the head of that indie and I recognized that with demand for Panther Hall Vol. 2 probably less than what the minimum order was going to be, it just wasn't possible. 50 grand was what was needed just to produce the albums, let along promote it.
I learned a lot from that experience, and made some friends whom I can still call on today.
I think MP3s and iPods sound like crap, but one positive aspect of selling music online is that the cost of doing something like "Panther Hall Vol.2" now would be a fraction of what I was quoted in 2002. The only costs would be the transfer from the analog tapes, really, and some marketing costs. I think the rate to transfer the tapes was about $2000 per day over at Sony Studios, but I am a bit foggy on that, it was more than four years ago.
I did my best friends!
p.s. I may send a note to my friend at the Vault and see if there might be any way to get Panther Hall Vol. 2 released digitally, I will post something here if anything develops. |
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Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 19 Jun 2006 6:53 am
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| The only costs would be the transfer from the analog tapes, really, and some marketing costs. I think the rate to transfer the tapes was about $2000 per day over at Sony Studios, but I am a bit foggy on that, it was more than four years ago. |
But it may take quite a bit more to make the tapes "listenable."
Just two years prior in 1967, RCA recorded four Monkees concerts for potential release which never happened. In 1987, Rhino Records got the tapes and put out an album with songs culled from three of those concerts, "Live 1967," which sounded great! Then, just a few years ago, Rhino decided to put out all four concerts in their entirety via their Rhino Handmade division.
Long story short....the Handmade set of discs were straight from the master reels and sounded horrible. Vocals were buried, instruments were not properly equalized.....in other words, it was blatantly obvious that Rhino spent quite a bit of time with the tapes back in 1987 trying to make the songs they put out sound really good. And it shows you how hard they worked at it, because they were able to make those songs sound great! When you A/B the songs they released in 1987 to the unmixed/unequalized songs from the box set put out a few years ago, you can easily see that there was no comparison. The box set sounded horrid.
The fact is, back in 1969/1970 RCA may have just taken the songs intended for release from "Panther Hall" and done their magic with them...and ONLY them. Those mixes would not be on the original tapes, only the album master. Thus, the original recordings would all be unequalized so to put out the whole concert might require work on ALL the tracks, including those that were originally released. That would probably cost some $$$. Still, as popular as Charley Pride is/was, I would think there would be a large enough market to make it worth BMG's/RCA's while...??? Heck, BMG/Camden went and remastered the entire Mike Nesmith catalog AND put out unreleased tracks (in England), so perhaps our friends across the Atlantic might be more easily persuaded to do such a project![This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 19 June 2006 at 07:57 AM.] |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2006 3:03 pm
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Yea, but the raw Panther hall stuff is all on 3 tracks only. It'd be a breeze to mix. There is a Left and Right instrumental track and then Charlie's vocal. That's it.
Brad
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 19 Jun 2006 4:29 pm
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I was working with Gerald on that one and the thing about the masters is that they need to be baked and then they can be played only once before they fall apart.
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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2006 5:47 pm
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| Quote: |
| Yea, but the raw Panther hall stuff is all on 3 tracks only. It'd be a breeze to mix. There is a Left and Right instrumental track and then Charlie's vocal. That's it. |
Piece of cake - just leave out the vocal track and you're done! 
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 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog |
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Chris Schlotzhauer
From:
Colleyville, Tx. USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2006 9:02 pm
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| Is the original available on CD? I'm having trouble finding it. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 19 Jun 2006 10:02 pm
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The master needs to be polayed once
into a digital recording system at 96khz or above,
to capture the best possible sound,
then down sampled to CD bandwidth.
No-one really knew how long these tapes would last,
but it seems no where near as long as hoped. |
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John Lockney
From:
New Market, Maryland, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2006 3:26 am
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Chris, the original is out-of-print. I found it on eBay for about $10. It is well-worth seeking-out.
Is the sound quality the same on the two CD releases ? I have the one by RCA/BMG, which says it is "digitally remastered" - the sound quality is truly amazing.
I would rather have a new release of the entire performance un-cut instead of a “Volume 2”. I would buy an insanely expensive Bear Family box-set to get it and I think a lot of people would.
If we can’t get it released for commercial purposes I would hope the Smithsonian would step-up and help to preserve the tapes.
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Dave Burr
From:
League City, TX
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Posted 21 Jun 2006 4:40 am
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Chris,
There are four used copies on amazon.com... The lowest price is $27.99 with the highest being $100. I bought a copy around 2001 from Cactus Records in Houston for less than $15. Pretty good investment I'd say.
I think they can still be found new in wrapper, but you're going to have to search for them. Matter of fact, I think I remember seeing one at Borders in Nashville the last time I was there.
RE: Re-issue of additional vault material. I'm all for it in any form we can get it.
dBurr
[This message was edited by Dave Burr on 21 June 2006 at 05:43 AM.] |
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Dave Burr
From:
League City, TX
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Posted 21 Jun 2006 4:51 am
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Update from last post.
Here is a BIN listing for $6.94: Click here[This message was edited by Dave Burr on 21 June 2006 at 05:56 AM.] |
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 23 Jun 2006 5:30 am
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| When licensing product from a major, you must never, never... never do the deal where they produce the CDs, source a company that services indie labels, majors will charge the most obscene rates and insist on a ridiculous minimum run, they have a skewed perspective on these things. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Jun 2006 5:35 am
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Jason,
You got it ! That was the only deal they offered though.
------------------
Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website
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Ron !
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Posted 23 Jun 2006 3:30 pm
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| Quote: |
| they need to be baked and then they can be played only once before they fall apart. |
Well that depends.How were the tapes saved and were they in a dustfree case.Were they stacked on shelfs or just dumped.
There are so many different ways that you can stack and save a tape.
My wife has her first recording sessions with lloyd Green and Hargus "Pig" Robbins still on tape and that tape is really looking good and playable.
And the software these days that recording labels use is so advanced that that will be no problem to get it on cd.
Gerald shoot me a mail please.
Ron
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