Why, Oh Why???

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 May 2006 7:08 am

Do we have to determine

* Who is the greatest steel player?
* What is the best brand?
* What is the best amp?
* What is the best steel guitar instrumental?
* What is the best color for a steel guitar?
* What is best for a steel player to wear when playing?

All of these 'superlative' topics sound like high school kids to me. (Most Likely to . . . whatever)

* Is tab GOOD or is tab BAD?
* Is it true that the ONLY music is COUNTRY music?
* Should we use effects?
* Should we palm block or pick block?

I've been mystified by these topics since joining the Forum (MANY years back) and wonder why we feel the compulsion to discuss things we'll never agree on. What's best for me is not necessarily what's best for you.

THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER TO ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS. THE ANSWERS ARE ALL NOTHING MORE THAN ONE PERSON'S OPINION. If the answers were written as an opinion it might be easier to stomach, but, so often, they are written as the gospel -- 'I'm RIGHT and you're WRONG'. Escalates into FLAME WARS and people's feelings get hurt -- and we lose some great members who just don't want to be mean to each other -- Carl Dixon comes to mind.

I guess it's just human nature to ask them, but MAN does it ever get tiresome seeing the same worn out questions with no real answers pop up again and again.

My resolution is just not to read them anymore. It will shorten my Forum time considerably and free up time to do something useful.

(thanks for letting me vent)
(now you will be returned to your regularly scheduled programming)

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 10 May 2006 7:24 am

Larry,

Thanks for speaking out! That is exactly what I have thought so many times. 90% of the heated discussions (that often lead to personal arguments with bad wording) originated in those threads. If you want to start some fuss and fight, just write something about RR and JG - that usually works perfect!

Personally I never participate in those threads, it is a waste of time for me...

Information about events, recordings, historical data anytime, discussions with a serious background (music business in general etc.) also, there are a lot of folks around here whose opinions I always appreciate, even if I have a different opinion. Sometimes it is fun to argue and exchange opinions, as long as it is not done the "excited" way...

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 10 May 2006 7:27 am

Maybe it's not so much subject content rather the exchange of idea's that we enjoy. Conversation about what we love.

Rick

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 10 May 2006 7:31 am

"My dog's better than your dog,
My dog's better than yours
My dog's better 'cause he eats KenlRation
My dog's better than yours"

Advertisement from when? The '70's?

Think of the psychology behind the message.
A wee bit childish, perhaps, but still a hook promoted by Madison Avenue. A hook on the competitiveness of human nature.

It's harmless until someone takes offense.

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 10 May 2006 7:32 am

I agree completely. What bugs me the most is the making of gods out of some steel players.

Jerry

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 10 May 2006 7:33 am

:[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 04 December 2006 at 09:22 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 10 May 2006 7:48 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 11 May 2006 at 04:15 AM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 10 May 2006 7:58 am

You're right, Larry.

Having said that, there are a handful of regulars on here whose threads I'll read because there's usually something to be learned. Unfortunately, even these threads will often degenerate into the chaos you describe!

It's also true to say that only rarely does someone experience a 'change of heart' on a given topic (and even more rarely will they admit it!).

I must also concur with Jerry Horner - it only takes a 'name' player to come on here, and he becomes 'Mr' Franklin, 'Mr' Emmons or, even worse - 'Sir'!!! (I conducted an experiment once and 'posted' something in the course of a 'discussion' that I'd 'lifted verbatim' from Buddy Emmons in another thread - naturally, I was 'shot down in flames' and 'my' opinion dismissed as being of no account

)....

I suppose the smartest thing would be to avoid any thread that actually poses a question.

Anyway, Larry - thanks for that refreshing view!

RR

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 May 2006 7:58 am

Come on Larry..

we all know Black is the best color, not Blue or Red

10 Strings are best, not 12...

Tab is great..( if ya need it )

Steel Guitar Rag rules...

MY amp is the best

One of them Tenn. sorta guys is the Best player.

Palm Beach blocking is the best

and effects are mandatory..

Oh and of course the brand I play is the best..

and so are the strings I use...

come-on already...geesh..how many times we gotta go thru this....

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 10 May 2006 8:50 am

Why must we ask "Why oh why"?

I don't mind seeing new players ask these type of questions, in many cases they are trying get a handle of what paths to follow into: equipment purchases; learning methods; general theory on uses of the PSG (Jimmy Day to RR), ect....

I remember when I had many of these same questions myself. Some of the threads to seem to outlive their original purpose, but hey, this is an internet forum.

my $.02

------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 10 May 2006 9:03 am

I agree in theory with Rick Garrett's suggestion about the free exchange of ideas, but sometimes.... well....
Recently I put forward what I thought was a well-thought, respectful, polite, and informed opinion about something which did not jive with the idol-worshippers participating in the thread. You'd think I shot somebody's dog.
If you're "only allowed to say nice things", or if dissenting opinions are unwelcome, then this forum turns into Pleasantville, and will become completely useless.
After 10 or 12 responses saying "Yeah, he's great", I feel like I'm listening to a broken record, and a boring, uninformative one at that.
Jerry Horner, you made me smile. Some people are not content enjoying someone's musical abilities without assigning all kinds of wonderful and completely contrived traits to them.
And, as Larry said, Now back to your regularly scheduled Forum, where All Men Are Brave And All Women Beautiful.

-John

------------------
www.ottawajazz.com

Don E. Curtis · Post by **Don E. Curtis** » 10 May 2006 9:04 am

Larry, I'll second that also. Plus I once heard it said that; "My favorite steel guitarist is whomever I'm listenting to at the time!"
Don E.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 10 May 2006 9:06 am

Larry
Thanks for putting into words what I've thought ever since I joined this Forum in 1999.
Don

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 10 May 2006 9:07 am

Boys Dress Is Half Of The Show. I Think. SONNY.

------------------

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 10 May 2006 9:29 am

I sure miss Carl Dixon's input.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 10 May 2006 9:33 am

What you personally like IS THE BEST for you.

The search for valid comparative information from many sources,
is what our TEACHERS have long instructed us to do.
In school and musically.

Each person developes to his own natural level of incompetance.

At that point he or she resolutelly decides :
This is for me this is what I like,
and to heck with everything else.

Soon after an ingrained preference for things on a par with their
ear abilities, muscle-memory, intelectual development
and regional indoctrination; takes over
from advancing the learning curve.
Or they just "get comfortable" with what they know.

Over time aging slows the search for new input
and preferences fade from the common usage of incoming generations,
but the personal preferences remain the same.

So you get people at various levels in their life tragectory,
interacting with others here
on VERY different points of their path,
and from many different life expirence sets.

Each know what they know, some are still searching,
others have found their personal holy grail and search no more.

But each, in an interactive social way,
trys to, either learn, or pass on some historical
learned expirence to others,
since THAT in essence IS why the forum is here.

So no wonder there are ongoing diagreements,
And also the search for like minded others who you AGREE with.

Our purported demi-gods for example are those few dedicated players
with exceptional abilities,
that MOST ANYONE here agrees is way above most others.

I have met a few of these cats,
they have all been cool to be around,
even at the 'everybody wanting face time; chaos of ISGC.

If they put in the staggeringly serious hours of work
to be at a level above all but a very few,
then I say they deserve the respect.

At the same time most seem to be happy being regular guys, or gals, and put on no airs.

So it is natural to make lists, for several reasons,
and those on many lists earn greater respect.

Vats nat ta like?
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 10 May 2006 at 10:37 AM.]

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 10 May 2006 9:39 am

The fact that there are some worthless threads does not negate the value of the forum. There will always be bad with good. When I post a tune i heard on XM radio and somebody quickly gives me the name is very valuable. I am now playing the tune with one of my bands. Also I sold my amp recently through the forum. I buy strings exclusively through Bob. So there will always be overly opinionated people and dumb threads. That doesn't take away from how lucky we are that this forum exists. I read it every day. ......

[This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 10 May 2006 at 10:40 AM.]

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 10 May 2006 9:51 am

Hey Larry,

You're the best

Drew

------------------

Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 10 May 2006 10:15 am

I have always felt that there were neither good nor bad steel players, just steel players doing their thing to the best of their ability. I also have always felt that I could learn something from each of them no matter what their ability was.

Jerry

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 10 May 2006 10:23 am

I enjoy hearing the opinion of others.
I do'nt expect to be TOLD what is the best.......etc.,but when someone gives an honest account of why they like a particular item I take note of the relevant points and I often find that I am not right All the time.
I do not agree with bad mouthing something or someone,one mans meat, and so on.
Best regards
Billy

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 10 May 2006 11:09 am

Quote: "Each person developes to his own natural level of incompetance." David - Isn't that the "Peter Principle?"[This message was edited by Barry Blackwood on 10 May 2006 at 12:12 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 10 May 2006 11:10 am

What John Steele said.

And don't ever post anything that exposes the fact you don't know who some "name" steel player is. Well, unless that player is Jerry Garcia or Robert Randolph - then it's OK to be unfamiliar with them.

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 10 May 2006 11:29 am

I kind of like these sorts of questions. It's interesting to look through the archives and see how tastes change. So, with a BIG GRIN:

* Who is the greatest steel player?
Whoever inspired you to take up the instrument. For me, Speedy West.

* What is the best brand?
A cold one.

* What is the best amp?
The one that doesn't let you down at a gig. All else is a bonus.

* What is the best steel guitar instrumental?
For a beginner, the easiest one. For everone else, anything but SGR

* What is the best color for a steel guitar?
The one that makes you want to play it. Who cares what anyone else thinks about it?

* What is best for a steel player to wear when playing?
For most of us, clothes.

* Is tab GOOD or is tab BAD?
If it helps you to play what you hear in your head, good. If not, give it to someone else.

* Is it true that the ONLY music is COUNTRY music?
Clearly not. The ONLY music is Western Swing. And doo-wop. And swing. And big band. And Rockabilly. Possibly not rap - IMHO that's performance poetry. Ish.

* Should we use effects?
Certainly. At a minimum I suggest changing pitch. Use your bar and hands for this. Changing volume works too. Oh, and doo-wah tone controls. Otherwise, what sound do you hear in your head? Use effects to get it if you want.

* Should we palm block or pick block?
Yes. Bar block too.

With a grin,
Ian

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 May 2006 11:33 am

Why, oh why? Oh, I suppose because (in my opinion):

1) Some new players don't really even know where to start - it's an honest question.

2) Some people actually want to hear a variety of opinions, and the reasoning behind them, to try to help clarify their own thinking.

3) Some people want to see who's a member of their "My favorite xxxxx is yyyyy" club - steel player bonding.

4) Some people want to be told what to do by someone "authoritative", as if there is a magic answer that will solve all their problems.

5) Some people have an serious axe to grind. This is where the bulk of the trouble lies, IMO.

6) Probably others...

I don't see any problem, per se, with people discussing their preferences - for and against something. I don't think there's any absolutely correct answer for most of the issues posed on this or any other forum - most things depend on the context.

But what does trouble me is the vitriolic attacks that sometimes occur - against an idea, another player or musician, a style of music, mode of dress, whatever. I'm not talking about simply stating a preference as an opinion, but an pointed attack on an individual or group of people who do things a certain way. The problem is that one outburst leads to another, and before you know it, it's out of control and gets personal. It's one thing to state ones opinion, as such. But, IMHO, if one states an unequivocal opinion, one should expect reasonable disagreement will sometimes occur. Myself, I learn by vetting ideas with my peers - honest but constructive disagreement can change an open mind, and I try to keep mine open.

I believe that if everyone strictly followed this forum rule:

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not post any material which is knowingly false, defamatory, libelous, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, racist or illegal.

then most of these problems would go away. I don't care what the topic is, if we don't follow these rules, there can be problems - some people get worked up over seemingly innocuous ideas, and sometimes it's hard to see the land mines. I don't think this is asking too much. Then, maybe we wouldn't need to fear opening up a thread titled "Why Keyless Guitars are the Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread and Will Improve Your Sex Life" (It's a joke - following the Johnny Carson tradition of joke diagramming.)

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 10 May 2006 11:34 am

If that is the problem then what is the solution? After all, this is a Forum of and about a very unique and complex instrument.

Players of every level come here to join in and learn by asking questions which, are worn out to many of us but are brand new to them and no less valid.

It makes no difference whether you are training for your pilots license, ham radio license or whatever, the same questions get asked over and over because the process of learning requires it.

b0b designed this Forum as place where people could come and communicate with each other about a particular instrument we all love and sometimes hate.That unfortunately will involve opinions,bias and prejudice to that person's way of thinking and that is a human trait we can't change.

As I said earlier, the Steel Guitar is a complex instrument but I can think of no better place than this Forum to get such a diverse group of musicians to answer whatever question may be posed.

------------------
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.[This message was edited by Dick Wood on 10 May 2006 at 01:21 PM.]