Bogus Keyboard Sounds On Steel Albums

Gerald Menke · From: Stormville NY, USA

Hello,

Am I the only one that finds the keyboard sounds and sometimes, the keyboard playing on steel albums to be bogus? I have recently been delving into the catalogues of some of the greats, and love listening to them, but I have to say, what is up with the keyboard sounds that are used on some of these albums?? I understand some of it may just have been a desire to use what was "new" at the time, but man, those sounds have not aged well. I wish there were some software to remove the keyboard parts on some of these albums, my enjoyment of them would be enhanced greatly if I didn't have to suffer through the sound of DX7 direct to the board while one of my heros tears it up on the C6 neck. Anybody else feel this way?

A notable exception is the beautiful album featring Reece and Tom Morrell called "Sextet Sessions", there's a real piano on there, sounds fantastic blending with the steels.

Gerald

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Agreed... Some is better than others, but I too have found the keys on some steel albums to be "blah"..Never could understand it... I am not a big fan of keys and steel together under most circumstances anyway, so I may have a skewed opinion... Like guitars/fiddles/steels/mandos/banjos for most country stuff.. not keys so much..... bob

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Actually, they don't bother me, although you are correct about the sounds used. My main focus is the steel guitar so, the backround stuff often goes un-noticed.

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

Them string machines get to me and those phony horn parts with keys too. I never cared for them. Just real piano is all you need.

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

I agree that an acoustic piano is the best. But, don't blame it on the DX7.....that's an awesome instrument, just ask Brian Eno! I think it was overused for just a handful of factory patches in the 1980's, and there may be some associations that we'd like to forget with the DX7, but in the hands of a good programmer it can do a lot.

Gerald Menke · From: Stormville NY, USA

I hear you Richard, but it's hard to to ignore the bad synths sometimes, especially when the steel all but lays out and some dude starts in with a solo on the Korg SUK-2000.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Let's not forget the questionable sounds that some of the steel players themselves used that have not really held up over the years. The flavor of the month gadgets of yesteryear like phase shifters and those "angry bee" sounding buzz gizmos like the Boss Tones sound pretty chessy 20+ years later.

David Doggett · Posted 6 Mar 2006 7:40 pm

And don't forget the overused chorus.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

And delay

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

And reverb...

JB Arnold · From: Longmont,Co,USA (deceased)

In the hands of a serious rocker like Cage that Boss Tone sounds pretty durn good.....He really is a master at using that thing for just the ight amount of effect.

JB

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erik · Posted 7 Mar 2006 4:18 am

I don't have anything against the DX7. Most albums reflect the sound of the day. However, chorused steel does make me cringe.

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-johnson

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

my gripe is the over used Kenny G style sax playing that's been ever present on some newer releases.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

I have a mid-sixties Lloyd Green album with an electric harpsichord instead of a piano on just about every track – they even promote it on the back of the cover as the hottest thing for music since electricity was invented, or something to that effect.

And yes, it sounds just as awful as you think it would, and very nearly makes the record unbearable to listen to.

Luckily, it didn't catch on...

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Peavey Nashville 1000

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I have several steel guitar CDs by famous players gathering dust because of the backing "band" - I don't consider Band-In-A-Box horn tootles to be something good enough for my limited listening time. I much prefer to hear Mike Perlowin's approach of overdubbing steel parts to fill the orchestral needs, or the Dave Easley approach - no rhythm guitar, no piano, no lead guitar, just play all those parts yourself. Of course, this requires talent....

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

When I really got into the mainstream steel scene and started going to conventions and buying tapes and CD's of the big hitters ('95-2000), I was a bit dissapointed by the lack of original steel material (there is some if you look for it!) and the overwheliming amount of steel instumentals of exisitng pop, country, and even rock tunes (not to mention the keyboards!).

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

It's also a function of budget.
Most budgets won't buy a studio with a great acoustic paino,
and the player might want something too.

You do what you CAN do,
with who you can do it with.

Eli Hall · From: Lousville, Kentucky, USA

I prefer an acoustic piano myself (or a good old-fashioned Fender Rhodes!). With today's digital recording tools, you could probably figure out a way to get rid of it but why? It's a great way to pinpoint when a recording was made...kind of like carbon dating for audiophiles.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Like guitar effects, processed keyboard sounds are a sign of the times, you can peg the era or decade on the sound. 70's - clavinet, Fender Rhodes, 80's - DX7, synth, etc. Since today's keyboards all come with a multitude of sounds and effects, the "real piano" sounds of, say, E's black album are refreshing.

Chorus? Ugh.

cheers,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Chorused steel sounds pretty awful to m as well, in most cases. A lot of it has to do with over-effected tones and the use of lowest-common denominator chorus pedals like Boss, DOD, Digitech, etc. The only stompbox chorus pedals I really like are the old Arion SCH-1 (NOT the SCZ-1 - yech) - that's a secret-weapon Bob Bradshaw used to put in a lot of rack systems - and the Way Huge Blue Hippo. Both those sound really lush without sounding....well, like the chorus sounds everybody hates.

As far as keys with steel, acoustic piano can be cool, as can a big ol' B-3. IMO the DX7 patches for those are lame compared to modern synths, though. And live, a real B-3 just has more of something that fills the room, and it blends well with steel if both players don't try to fill every space with sound.

That's the biggest problem IMO with keys and steel - both use a lot of movement and a lot of notes, and they can step on each other. Both players need to know when to lay out. I would have loved to hear Count Basie with Buddy Emmons - Basie could play one perfect note and that would be the whole solo, and Emmons knows when to NOT play as well. But almost all keyboard players (and steel players, me included) can't resist the temptation to fill space with uneccessary notes...

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Jay Dee Mannes has used Chorus as one of the main ingredients of his sound for many years, as has Paul Franklin! It would be hard to find a better sound than what they have develped! Jay Dee’s sound ways always outstanding with Hwy 101! IMHO

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
n.t.s.g.a. #90
’05 D–10 Derby
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Sometimes if you set a chorus blend to "33" instead of "99" it can ease the pain a bit. Distortion tends to work that way too.

Gerald Menke · From: Stormville NY, USA

Just wanted to mention I was talking about corny keyboard sounds, not the use of chorus on the steel guitar you guys. I am sad to say that some of the keyboard work on some of the PSG-oriented albums I have all but keep me from really enjoying the music.

Maybe me I am risking throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but I end up getting more out of the albums that have my heroes backing up artists -- maybe it's because there was usually a genuine "piana" in those higher dollar studios, as was pointed out.

An exception, the Big E's "Expedition E9", wow, that thing is amazing, even if I don't like some of the keyboard sounds on it. And I like the Rhodes on the "Live in '77" album, pretty funky.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

IMHO an effect should be an addition to your sound,
not taking over your sound, even if some settings can do that.
There are times a really changed sound can be cool,
but in general subtle wins the day.

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