Non Smoking Bars

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 12 Feb 2006 6:54 pm

Around ten years ago, a guitar player that worked me at the time asked me one night what I thought of a bar that didn't allow smoking and I thought that was crazy. At the time I owned a bar called The Turf in downtown Nashville on Broad Street.
Today I see where the need for this is foremost in a lot of peoples minds not just the patrons but the pickers and employees of a place like this too. I'd love it here but the smokers would have a fit.
Do you have non smoking bars in your area? Imagine, no smoke on your guitar or equipment.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 12 Feb 2006 7:01 pm

Frank, I was going to post on this tonight. Here in N.Y. no smoking went into effect three years ago. Initially there was a dip in business. Some places even went out of business. Now there is an explosion. Why? Because the people who wouldn't go out to bars before because of the smoke now go out in droves. There are now more people who don't smoke than do. Our country places here in western N.Y. are jammed packed on the weekends. The smokers now go outside if they want to smoke and everybody adjusted. Smoking is a disgusting habit and second hand smoke is a real proven health hazzard. If your amp has turned yellow over the years because of the smoke think of whats happening to your lungs.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 12 February 2006 at 07:02 PM.][This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 12 February 2006 at 07:02 PM.][This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 12 February 2006 at 07:03 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 12 Feb 2006 7:07 pm

Here in California we have a no smoking law and most of the clubs enforce it. A few don't.

Personally, I think it's wonderful. If people want to do that to themselves, that's their right, but they don't have the right to impose their poison on me.

I should add that my mother in law, who did not smoke, but worked in an office where everybody else did, died at the age of 57 from lung cancer, which we believe she contracted from the second hand smoke she was exposed to. (Most people don't get aling with their mothers-in-law, but Ruth was a genuinely nice person, and I really liked her a lot.)

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 12 Feb 2006 7:25 pm

It's fantastic -- we went compulsory non-smoking about 18 months ago, and from a musicians point of view its a huge benefit! And most of the pubs are doing booming business, despite the doomsters claiming they would all go broke. Hell I don't even feel sorry for the few poor sods who have to go outside and stand on the street for a smoke!
My hair, clothes and musical equipment no longer smell like an ashtry after a gig! my throat doesn't burn from sucking in foul air while I'm singing either.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 12 Feb 2006 7:34 pm

I would have no objections to working in a Smoke~Free environment, if the band didn't forget to take a break at reasonable intervals. Often I won't eat in a Smoke~Free Restaurant, if I plan to be there for any length of time! People's opinions change over the years, but; facts – not as often!

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HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 12 Feb 2006 8:14 pm

I don't mind non smoking bars, but if they ever enact a non drinking bar...I'll really be pi$$ed off!

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 12 Feb 2006 8:19 pm

I think Drinking Alcohol is a discusting habit and that they should Ban anyone from doing it.
I would rather play in a smoky bar; than in a bar full of people drinking alcohol.
Alcohol kills more people a year than smoking.
Folks drinking alcohol are more likly to harbor viruses; that I find objectionable to me; as their immune system is lowered because of the alcohol. Viruses kill more people in a year than second hand smoke does.
Smoking does not affect ones judgement and personality; as alcohol does, as the affects of Alcohol is the number one initiator of social disfunction and physical and mental abuse; which affects more lives that smoking does.
So I say; bring back prohibition and we'll all live longer.
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 12 February 2006 at 08:57 PM.]

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 12 Feb 2006 8:41 pm

I don't know what they're smoking or drinking, but Muslim extremists have to be at the top of the list with dangerous personality problems?
And maybe smoking, drinking house painters? [This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 12 February 2006 at 09:34 PM.]

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 12 Feb 2006 9:05 pm

I'll take a smoker over a drunk any day.I'm well aware of the dangers of smoking[and yes I do smoke].But the suffering and heart break from smoking is miniscule compared to the abuse of alcohol.Think of the millions of families destroyed,wives battered,children abused,innocent people murdered every day by drunk drivers.Next time any of you are playing in a smoke filled bar and trouble breaks out,check out if it was tobacco or alcohol related.Alcohol is a dangerous drug,but the federal,state,and local goverments make billions of dollars off it.No one ever asks an alcoholic to step outside to drink.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 12 Feb 2006 9:53 pm

Bars and pubs, have a mystic to them. I've fond memories of times of old hearing the old country music being "cutting edge".

Neither vice is worth a crap. I've lived with chronic alcoholics as a kid, (and I'll never forget those days) and buried my mother well before her time to tobacco, and got to watch her suffer as she died. Fun to explain all that to my kids, why Grandma won't be with us no more. Arguing about which is worse rates right up there with "which is better, getting shot or hung by rope".

There is moderation in drinking, but I don't see any moderation in smoking. Most folks that smoke "just a little", are soon hell bent chronic tobacco company customers who claim they can quit whenever they want to, but never do until mortality stares them in the face, and they realize, yes, they really hacked years off the tale end of their lives. Nobody appreciates good health, until they lose it.

I'm glad to see smoking out of public areas. I don't care for drunks either, but moderation is fine. Bouncers gotta make a livin', too. Ha!! My opinion.

I see a trend toward small oprys around our area, that allow smoking outside, but no drinking/profanity---all to keep a family atmosphere that encourages FAMILYS to come out and hear country music, and dance, and most of these folks want the good old country tunes, as they don't think much at all about the new music now-a-days. So, guess thats a good audience for you pickers that want to play the cool old tunes!

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 12 Feb 2006 10:02 pm

my mother lived to be 84 and she smoked every day,
she was killed by a drunk driver

calvin

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 12 Feb 2006 10:14 pm

James,the problem is an alcoholic has no clue what moderation is.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 12 Feb 2006 10:34 pm

The difference is that when we play in a bar, we do not invountarily consume other people's used alcohol and our health is not adversely affected by those who drink. But other people's second hand smoke DOES affect our health.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Feb 2006 10:50 pm

Although not required by law (yet) several music venues in our area have gone the non-smoking route and business has gone way up as a result - plus it's a whole lot more fun to play when you're not smoking eight other people's stogies at a time on stage.

I will not dispute the horrendous devastation to countless innocent (and otherwise) lives from alcohol and other drug abuse, a situation that has become all the more tragic with the invention of motorized vehicles, but let's get real folks, people have been making and drinking alcohol-containing beverages since right about the same time that dirt was discovered.

For some more modern facts we turn to the National Center for Health Statistics' latest figures, which show that cancer, heart disease and lower respiratory diseases accounted for 57.6% of ALL USA deaths in 2002, while liver diseases accounted for only 1.5% - as for the drunk drivers, ALL accidents, including medical mistakes, workplace hazards and toxins and swimming pool drownings as well as boating and automobile-associated deaths (caused by drunks or not) and airplane collisions accounted for a combined total of 5.8% of USA deaths in 2002. With this information in hand it's going to be pretty hard to make a credible case that alcohol kills more people than tobacco.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 12 February 2006 at 11:02 PM.]

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 12 Feb 2006 10:51 pm

Well, not to shove my druthers in any one's face, but if people smoked wacky-tobacky in bars in stead of drinking booze the world might be a wee bit nicer place. Bars could sell more food to make up for the lost alcohol revenue.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 12 Feb 2006 10:54 pm

Howard R, Somebody actually opened up a non-alcoholic bar here in L.A. back in the early 80's. The idea was to provide the country bar style environment for AA members who wanted to hear the music, and for families who wanted to be able to take their kids.

It's possible that the place might have succeeded, but the owner decided that he also wanted to front the house band.

Let me put it delecately. You've heard the phrase delusions of grandeur? Well, this guy had delusions of competance.

Perhaps with decent music, the place might had stood a chance. But the guy was so bad people would walk in, hear the guy attempting to sing, and walk out.

I went to hear a friend who was playing steel for him. It was really pathetic. My friend looked like he was being tortured.

Why do people think that if they learn 3 chords on a guitar, that automaticaly makes them professional entertrainers?[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 12 February 2006 at 10:55 PM.]

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 12 Feb 2006 11:00 pm

Maybe it should be supply and demand? If a citizen smoker buys a club to open for the smokers, should the government tell him he can't. Or should the public have the choice of not attending that club and the bands have the choice of not playing there?
A smoke free, alcohol free club opened in Cedar Rapids Iowa several years ago and went belly up in a year. Both clubs would be good in a free society.
My guess, if a club didnt serve alcohol, gross income would be lower. Thus, bands would get less pay. And bands already make less now than they did 20yrs ago.
Anyway, I'm more concerned about Mideast nuke capabilities. It's like a drunk owning a daily driver muscle car.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 13 Feb 2006 4:48 am

If there are any non smoking bars in our town, I don't know about them. At least I don't play them. I'd rather play in a non smoking environment as probably most would but I've never thought that "second hand smoke" was nearly as unhealthy as some make it out to be. I will say that having allergies for a long time, I sure know it when I go in a smoky bar. What I'm getting to is we all know it's unhealthy to smoke and the smokers do too but the government shouldn't try to regulate that much of our lives. It's like putting on a seat belt. We all know that it's the safest way to drive but to be made to do it and have them regulate it just gives "Big Brother" more control. Next they'll be going to McDonalds and limiting the amount of hamburgers they sell in one day because it's not the most healthy food on the planet. None of us are forced to go in any of these establishments. It does make it tough on musicians that make their living from it but I don't think we're going to see the day that prohibition comes back in. The government made a huge mistake on that little idea that turned organized crime loose on the public to give people what they wanted. People are always going to experiment with anything that gives them a buzz or changes their frame of mind. It's up to the government to inform us of which ones are safe and which ones aren't. I have never understood why pot hasn't been legalized. Like one of the posters above commented, you'd sure have a more mellow crowd that still were having a good time. Of course then we'd have the non pot smokers trying to get that regulated too.

It seems the ones that don't participate are always trying to tell everyone else why they shouldn't either.

As for us pickers, our instruments would be even more smoky than they are now! If they legalized pot, there might be two different crowds smoking outside bars, the ones that do smoke pot and the ones that only smoke cigarettes. Then the non smokers of either would try to get that regulated too! The pot smoker would have to stand farther away from the cigarette smokers! Geez it never ends.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 13 Feb 2006 5:09 am

Well, I can only say.... smoke, drink, terrorize, and play steel guitar responsibly....

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 13 Feb 2006 5:48 am

Let's put it this way. We all agree that it;s a legitimate function of government to protect us from invaders from foreigh countries who would do us harm.

It's also a legitimate function of government to protect us from criminals who likewise would do us harm.

It's also a legitimate function of government to regulate the flow of traffic via traffic signals, speed laws etc, so as to prevent accidents, that would also do us harm.

These are matters of public safety.

And so is the imposition of second hand smoke on non-smokers. I believe that just as it's also a legitimate function of government to tell me I can't cause you bodily harm by attacking you with a weapon like a gun or a knife, it's just as legitimate to tell me I can't attack you with the poison gas we call second hand smoke.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 13 Feb 2006 5:58 am

Massive Applause to Cliff!!!!!!!!!

Tom Zielinski · Post by **Tom Zielinski** » 13 Feb 2006 6:04 am

I guess I am going way back to the first few posts here. Yes, in NY we have the smoking ban. I played in Buffalo for 10 years as a bass player never thinking about the smoke. I still play a couple of days a week, but once in a while we play the only cigar bar in town. The whole band is outside hacking their lungs out after the first set and our singers voice gets a little raspy (and we aren't a loud band). After that gig, it takes two washings to get the smell out of the clothes---usually we burn them after the gig. The amp usually sits in the garage for a few days to air out. There really is a difference playing in a nonsmoking environment for a few months, then hitting a cigar bar. I am content with no smoking in bars.

Drinking never bothered me until a drunk guy fell into the PA monitor, which like one huge domino fell onto the upright bass and hit me in the back. Luckily, everyone was unscathed and the bass suffered a light scratch wound.

Regardless, whether you smoke or drink, it is still great that live music is still around.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 13 Feb 2006 6:32 am

Why don't musicians that don't want to be around alcohol or smoke stay out of freaking bars? Geesh

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 13 Feb 2006 6:35 am

So, you don't want the government to regulate and tell us what is the best for the majority? Well, who DO you want to tell us? Seems smokers don't even care to believe the Doctors who advise us not to smoke/ 2nd hand smoke! If you can't believe the staff who's job it is to make smokers "comfortable" while they hack up pieces of their lungs while they die, then you DO need "Big Brother" to regulate.

Calvin, Your point is? Seems your situation definately is NOT the norm. Sorry you lost your Grand mother to such a tragedy.

Charles Davidson, I believe most of us here know that alcoholics can't moderate their alcohol consumption. So, is yourpoint that any one who stops by the bar to have a beer or two and listen to some music and hang out with a few buddies is an alcoholic? I think NOT!

I'm out of hear, we've hashed this crap for years and it's pointless, and as you can see, I'm alittle toooo passionate about it! HA!! LOL CHEERS!!

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 13 Feb 2006 6:47 am

In Sweden, just as in Norway and Ireland (of all unlikely places), we have had a smoking ban in bars, pubs and restaurants for about a year now.

Seems like almost everyone is happy. Staff report greatly improved health, surveys indicate that over 80% of the smokers are in favor of the ban, and the crowds are actually bigger than before, contrary to all predictions.

Before the ban, as a dedicated non-smoker, I just couldn't walk inside a bar – in a matter of minutes my clothes got stinky and I was getting nauseous.
Now I can go anywhere.

If nicotine addicts want to slowly kill themselves, that's fine with me, but they had better stay out of everyone else's face – even outdoors. Second hand smoke is not just enormously irritating, it's a killer.

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Peavey Nashville 1000