Tic-Tac guitar

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Terry Bethel and I have been working on a CD for a fellow out of Conway, Arkansas. We used a Tic-Tac guitar to play with the upright bass, and left hand of the piano. It was that powerful sound of the 4/4 shuffle of old. People hear that sound and think it is just the bass player. It is much, much more than that. Each pattern must be followed exactly up and down by each player. The result is a rhythm section that makes a steel guitar and fiddle sound wonderful.

Terry Bethel · From: Hollister, Missouri (deceased)

It did cook didn't it Keith?
Terry

Bob Martin · From: Madison Tn

I love Tictac and as you know it's an art in of itself Ol' Leon almost made a career out of tictac sessions and you are right it just fills out the whole sound.

What most people confuse with tictac is the ol' timey sound of the bass player slapping strings against the neck of the bass and I love that as well but of course it's a completely different approach and sound.

You and Terry keep that tictac going by the way long time no see Terry I hope your doing better now. Have you heard from Sheila Knight lately Smile

???

Big Bob

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

Keith,

Since my first season at the Grand Palace
(eleven years ago - wow!) I've been working a lot of productions with Gail Bliss that use the two basses, upright and Tic Tac, together.

It takes a 'written' (or pre-arranged) bass part so that the basses are unison (although I have heard some '60's N'ville recording where the Tic Tac plays a 4/4 'walk' pattern while the upright plays 'in 2') and it takes players that realize how to be 'openeared' enough to collectively 'groove'.

With that proper combination, the rhythm section becomes 'heavenly' to play along with - they make ya feel like ya 'can do no wrong' behind the steel.

I look forward to every opportunity to work with Tic Tac & upright.

~Russ

PS - D'ja getcher mail?

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

I have tried to get that tic-tac sound on my own recordings but have failed so far. What are the secrets to an authentic 60's Nashville Sound tic-tac?

I guess lots of reverb, maximum low cut on the amp and maybe preferrably a Fender VI bass guitar, but what else apart from the upright bass?

When I try to add the tic-tac with my regular electric bass, there's too much sustain, but if I mute the strings there seems to be too little.

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Peavey Nashville 1000

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

Try a Danelectro Baritone guitar. The lipstick tubes give you a much more authentic Tictac than most of the higher end baritones.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I get it with a Dano Innuendo, with the slapback button pushed.
A Dano baritone gets the prize, however.

basilh · From: United Kingdom

On the albums I cut at EMI's Abbey Road studios in the 60's, we used a Fender 'Mustang' Bass guitar along with the Upright Bass for that sound (BTW so did Bert Kaempfert on a lot of his stuff.)

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Tim Harr · From: Dunlap, Illinois

Harold Bradley used to play on a lot of those early Patsy Cline records and also Loretta Lynn records (and many others)using a Tic-Tac. He showed me his studio date books from the early sixties once (this was in the early 90's while he was President of the local Nashville A F of M) He was doing sessions on guitar and tic-tac for artists like: Webb Pierce, Roy Orbison, Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn, Faron Young, etc... He even let me make a few photocopies of a few pages. If I can find them, I will scan and post.

To me in modern recordings...that is the ticket for getting that "sound".

[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 09 February 2006 at 06:32 AM.]

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Not only the Nashville players used it but the LA guys also. I worked some concerts with Henry Mancini and he liked the tic tac sound and used it on his records.

You get it with the Danelectro 6 string bass. The baritone will get close, but the Dano bass is the sound. Through a Twin or some other clean sounding amp or direct, mute the strings with the palm of your hand and use a heavy pick.

The initial use of the tic tac was to make the upright bass have a little "point" and help the bass line come out of the mix better when the recordings started to use heavier drum and guitar sounds. If you want to hear the perfect tic tac Dano bass sound just listen to Elvis sing that song "Devil in Disguise". I think that is the name of it.."You Walk Like an Angel, You Talk Like An Angel...that one. Anyway there is an exposed Dano bass lick before the verse comes in and it gives you an idea just how big and fat a tone it adds to the bass. In the vintage days of recording when guys knew how to play together live and blend and listen, the tic tac player and the bass player would know what each would do and not throw each other a curve musically so that the tic tac and upright part would work in tandem.

There have been studio players that would get the essence of that sound with electric bass by taking a Fender P bass and splitting the signal. One signal is the regular Fender bass sound and the other is EQ'd with a lot of top end and mids and when the bass is played with a pick or a little fingernail along with the flesh of the finger you can get a pretty good mix.

Another good studio trick is to use a nice acoustic guitar with heavy guage strings on it. Mute with the palm and play with the pick and mic the instrument close to the sound hole to accentuate the low end and this can have the effect of adding some acoustic sound to an electric track. The pick and mute will give the tic that you need for the attack.

Harold Bradley was the king of this in Nashville and says that he made a small fortune playing tic tac. One day he brought in a new Fender VI that he thought would be an upgrade to the much cheaper little lipstick tube pickup Dano. They started the session and immediately the engineer told hime to get the Dano because it sounded better.

The Korean Dano 6 string bass copies that were out a few years ago are very nice copies that are actually of better construction than the original Danos. They are not in production now and the prices of the Dano baritone and bass has increased in value. An original 60s Dano 6 string bass brings a hefty price on the vintage market.

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

This is getting really interesting! I guess I'll have to practice muting till I get it just right.

Maybe I shouldn't have sold my 30" scale lipstick pickup baritone guitar...

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Peavey Nashville 1000

Mike Pace · From: O.S. CT. USA

A few years back, I bought a Jerry Jones longhorn bassVI, which is essentially a Dano copy~ In 2001 I did a session where I doubled my electric upright lines with it~ what a result!!!!! Aside from that, I was using it as my main bass in one rock band, until I had Alembic build me a new bassVI last year~ the new bass has a wider string spacing so I can also play with my fingers, and the electronics allow me to split the signal so I can get close to that "sound" with no overdubs!!!! I love it!!!

Michael McGee · From: Everton, Missouri, USA

Does any forum member know the history of when this became part of the nashville sound and who was responsible. It is a magical sound.

I fully admit that I don't have a creative bone in my body, but never in a million years of recording would I have one day sat down and said, "ok, to make the bass part better, let's add a trebly, non-bassy clicking sound". It makes for a gorgeous sounding groove, but the logic of discovering it escapes my pea brain.

Leslie Ehrlich · From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

I always thought that a Tic Tac was a little breath freshening mint candy. What's the diff between tic-tac and tick-tock guitar? I know that tick-tock guitar is the style that Luther Perkins played with Johnny Cash.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

The Tic-Tac guitar we used on the session was a black Danelectro, tuned from B to B. I was talking to Bob Hempker and he told me the fiddle player, Wade Landry, our fiddle player on the session, had a Tic-Tac guitar. I mentioned it to my friend Terry Bethel--and away we went. I personally don't think you can get the bass sound that drives steel players crazy, without using a Tic-Tac. Never forget Tommy Jackson and his fiddle, he defined the sound so many steel players love.

Max Laine · From: Pori, Finland

Was Ray Price first? I can hear it in his recordings from 1960... Great sound!

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

I use a 1960 Danelectro Dolphin head bass,That I tune up a 4th and it works great,sounds just like those old recordings.The weird thing about it is the scale is shorter than a P-bass,it's 30" the low E string off of a set of bass strings won't work on it because the claw that holds the ball end is too small,I can't remember the exact gauges that I use...I think that my Low string "A" is about an 0.85.The trick is muting.

Herby Wallace · From: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.

I was fortunate to get to play on an album in Nashville with an artist about a year ago and none other than Harold Bradley was playing Tic Tac. Harold is a Legend and still plays great. What was so neat about this session was that everything was cut live and not just a series of overdubs. I might be old fashioned, but I still prefer the sessions where all the musicians are there at the same time and work off each other. Some of the best things I ever got to play on was when I worked with Nat Stuckey in the early seventies. He recorded at RCA and back then everything was live. Every session consisted of upright bass, tic tac, piano, drums, 3 rhythm guitars, steel guitar, lead guitar, 2 fiddles on some sessions, and 4 backup singers (usually the Jordanaires). We would record 4 songs in a 3 hour session and except for mixing the tracks were done. Nat Stuckey was such a great singer that he almost always had his vocal in the first take with no pitch problems or overdubs. I didn't mean to get sidetracked, but back to the original topic about Tic Tac bass. Everyone of these sessions I am talking about with Nat had Harold Bradley playing Tic Tac. By the way the upright bass player who worked with Harold was Joe Zinken, who was a great player too.

Herby Wallace

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Jordan Shapiro · From: Echo Park, California, USA

I was under the impression that tic-tac guitar was done with a regular 6 string guitar. I have just set up my computer to start recording, and the first song I'm attempting is "Back to the Barrooms" by Hag.

I've been trying to get a tic tac track, but it is not easy, on a couple of levels:

A. Timing is EVERYTHING. If I'm just a little behind or in front of the beat, it;s all over!

B. The right sound, ie: combination of effects. I'm playing an early 70's tele through a 50's champ clean. The sound is good, but it isn't right for the tic tac.

Do I need to borrow a baritone guitar and use a little reverb and slapback through my Twin reverb?

With the driving bass drum in the song, I would really like the tic tac guitar on there.

Great topic guys!,

Jordan
323.819.0959

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Not too far from the subject :-...
Tic Tac Bass was used extensiveley by the EMI artists recording at Abbey Road Studios in the late 50's and throughout the 60's.
Like this

Sleepwalk

Up Up and Away

Careless hands

Little green Apples

A different Tic-Tac..

Scat in the Dark

The sound gives the Bass and Kik drum a 'Tightness' that is easy to bring forward in the mix without becoming dominant..
The first commercial hit record that I remember was of Bert Kaempfert
Bert's Bio

[This message was edited by basilh on 10 February 2006 at 03:13 AM.]

[This message was edited by basilh on 11 February 2006 at 02:25 AM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

*

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 05 April 2006 at 04:42 AM.]

Jon Zimmerman · From: California, USA

Great thread!

Stephan Franck · From: La Crescenta, California, USA

Thank you for bringing this topic up. That's something I've always wanted to know more about. A lot has been said already.

My question is: where do you place it in the mix, spacially? Right on top of the bass?

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

Some terrific licks there Gene, I like that. I've never played on a session where tic tac was used but I've always known what it was. On some credits I've seen so and so on "feet". I have some ideas but I'm not sure what that is. But it brings up some strange mental pictures.

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So Many Strings, So Few Fingers

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

S. Franck. The tic tac is mixed right with the upright bass in the center and not panned. You should hear the nice ummphh of the upright and the attack of the tic tac. That is what it is meant to do in tandem with the upright.

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