Why do we call it Traditional rather than old?

George Plemons · Post by **George Plemons** » 24 Oct 2005 6:51 pm

If you ask someone in a country band does their band play traditional music or "the newer stuff", it is commonly accepted that you mean the "old stuff". In rock, blues, or almost any other music, it is either old or new.
I guess if you are 60ish you mean Hank sr., if you are 50ish you mean Buddy E. or maybe Ray P., if you are 40ish you mean Paul F. or maybe George S. I am 50ish and I ask a young kid on guitar in a band I was sitting in with last year if they played any 4/4's (since it was about the third set and we had not played any), he looked at me like he was trying to add four and four to see what 8's song we could play next.
If you are 20 now, what will traditional mean to you when you are say 50. Maybe you will say something like "do yall do any good ol traditional stuff like Robert Randolph or some neat stuff like that?"
Country music is a strange business, but you know I like the traditional music like Price, and Bush, and Faron Young...you know..
the good stuff..

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 24 Oct 2005 8:50 pm

Cause we're traditional, not old.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 24 Oct 2005 10:04 pm

Traditional is a Style; that is how you decribe Country Music these days. There is Traditional Country music that is brand new out there today. There is also old Country music that is not Traditional.
So my take is the names are depicting a style. If one does not know the history of anything they try to "Label"; than that shows their ignorance> hence; almost every record company in Nashville.
Ricky

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Oct 2005 10:29 pm

Ricky's right on the money. In my experience it varies from band to band and picker to picker- there are some young kids around here that have a vast knowledge of and respect for "traditional" styles and artists, and some older players who don't have a clue. Makes pick-up gigs a really interesting crapshoot...

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 25 Oct 2005 2:18 am

Around my area, "traditional" generally refers to "older" country such as music by Wynn Stewart, Ray Price, Jim Reeves, Haggard, etc.

I'll go along with it depends on the band and the age of the band members. I did a fill in gig with a band and their vision of "old country" was about 1985 and everything they did, regardless of the song, was basically southern rock.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 25 Oct 2005 3:24 am

"do yall do any good ol traditional stuff like Robert Randolph or some neat stuff like that?"

Pretty funny scenario.

Traditional, to me, goes back farther than anything cited; music from Appalachia, that came from 'the old country'; music that no longer has a writer, but that has been passed down and reinterpreted.
Often, it's old.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 25 Oct 2005 3:57 am

but..can you play a Traditional (old) Song in the NEW style ?

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 25 Oct 2005 4:27 am

I think the "traditional" assignment may be related to what we were exposed to in our formative years, yet it doesn't necessarily lock us into music that was produced DURING those years. I hear tunes by Heather Myles that remind me of (as in - similar style) tunes by Loretta, Lorrie Morgan, Tammy & Wynette, perrhaps all in the same tune.
What I miss about the old styles is that they had space between the words and syllables. Today's music is produced such that every millisecond has to push the needles to the red.

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 25 Oct 2005 4:42 am

I just prefer tp pick!

Lee Gillespie · Post by **Lee Gillespie** » 25 Oct 2005 4:56 am

Right on Ray...I have been a country fan ever since my mama changed my first diaper. I started playing steel when I was 15 years old.. listening and copying Roy Wiggins. Country music in the last 10 years have turned me off. I very seldom ever listen to the country music genda excepting people like George Strait, Ricky Scaggs, or any band that plays that good ole Western Swing.
Maybe its the generation gap. I wonder what my dad was saying when Hank Sr, Carl Smith,Eddy Arnold and the others in that era came along?... Possibly the same thing we're saying about todays music?? Thanks for listening. LEE

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 25 Oct 2005 6:50 am

An interesting thread.

My first 'country' influences came from Merle Haggard and Buck Owens (I'm 62, and from England) - the older stuff sounded a bit corny to me back then, but Buck and Merle had that great edgy Telecaster sound, and it was almost rock'n'roll to my ears! I've often wondered if those bands had their detractors back in the early sixties who accused them of tainting country music!

It's amazing, though, how that style opened the door for me and I found myself listening (in due course) to older styles and embracing them. I'll always have a preference for the first country players I was exposed to - James Burton, Don Rich, Ralph Mooney, Jay Dee Maness, Tom Brumley and Roy Nichols - but taking up PSG in the '70s meant broadening my musical pallette.

I do agree that it's very much a generational thing, and we never lose our affection for the music that grabbed us in our formative years. I'd played guitar since '57 when I heard my first Owens record some seven years later, and it was a real epiphany for me!

RR

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 25 Oct 2005 10:32 am

George,,

I'm 50'ish also, and this picker you're refering to about 4/4 would probably never figure out what I call a 7,, LOL..

Larry
ps. I'm traditional,, not old!!
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Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 25 October 2005 at 11:33 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 25 Oct 2005 10:59 am

"What I miss about the old styles is that they had space between the words and syllables."

Me too, big time.

George Plemons · Post by **George Plemons** » 25 Oct 2005 4:00 pm

Some funny and some interesting replies here.
My wife listens to an old classic rock station all the time out of dallas and I often tease her that she is trapped in a time warp...but maybe I am trapped in a country time warp. All I know is when we do "there stands the glass", "burning memories", "empty glass", etc. I get an adrenalin rush and when I am playing songs like that I sometimes wonder if I am in heaven!!!

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 25 Oct 2005 4:31 pm

I am in my middle 60's. When I was active playing steel in the mid 70's the singer in our band sang Price, Young, Bush, Booth,Haggard,Tillis,Owens, Jones, Paycheck,etc.You can see what kind of music we liked to play, but here in Central Illinois the songs that were requested were "Rock and Roll". But here was the bottom line. We liked what we were doing and if the manager of the bar liked what we were playing, we were invited back. PS We played just enough light rock,read Elvis, Chuck Berry, to satisfy some of the "Kids".

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
[This message was edited by Lyle Clary on 25 October 2005 at 05:34 PM.]

Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 25 Oct 2005 4:52 pm

If you are 20 now, what will traditional mean to you when you are say 50. Maybe you will say something like "do yall do any good ol traditional stuff like Robert Randolph or some neat stuff like that?"

As a twenty-something, I don't see a lot of potential for tradition. Money seems to be what we know best. Instead of tradition, we have a global economy, commercialization, and consumerism. Our world moves by so fast we don't have time to gather moss, and any identity we try to gain is immediately exploited by money-hungry corporations and turned into a sellable product. Good thing we're the wealthiest generation. Too bad we're probably the most lost.

Billy McCoy · Post by **Billy McCoy** » 25 Oct 2005 7:18 pm

Traditional Country means to me:

George Strait, Alan Jackson, Merle Haggard,
George JONES, ...anything that has fiddle and Steel guitar and a chicken pickin' Tele in the music.

NON-Traditional:
Toby Keith, Tim McGraw, Exile and Restless Heart. Heck, I played three years for Janie Fricke...and her stuff was and is still NON traditional...although she loves to put a couple of Ray Price tunes in the show.

Like Ricky said....traditional Country is a STYLE...not old or new...

just a differential between the More Rock laden drums and distorted, Guitar...and the lack of telecasters, steel and fiddle.

That's my take on it...and when presented this way...the old and the young players alike seem to agree to this discription.

b

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MSA Millennium D10, Walker Stereo Steel, Stone Tree Custom Tele, LINE 6 Vetta II and POD XT PRO

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 25 Oct 2005 8:09 pm

I'm less pessimistic than my twenty-something brother Chris. I think our generation will figure it out, we just have a bit more growing up to do.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 26 Oct 2005 4:21 am

To me Toby leans more on the Traditional side than non.

Check out his video with Merle!

WOW!

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 26 Oct 2005 4:46 am

"If you are 20 now, what will traditional mean to you when you are say 50. Maybe you will say something like "do yall do any good ol traditional stuff like Robert Randolph or some neat stuff like that?"
You will, you know. I spend my time with young people, teaching them musical things and I can give you a bucketful of examples aleady.
Six or seven years ago, a couple who'd obviously met during the Punky Eighties were gazing into eachothers' eyes in true "they're playing our song" style.
The song being played at the jam session ( by a bunch of journalists form the local paper) was (censored version) "You're gonna get your ***** head kicked in"
Second example, a student in his twenties had tears in his eyes remembering the days of illicit raves. What brought this on?
I was demonstrating an 808 Drum machine!
For him, that was "our special song" !!!!

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Cheers!
Dave

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 26 Oct 2005 5:10 am

I think it's what you grow up listening to.
I call it traditional, old, it doesn't matter. I call it music.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 26 Oct 2005 6:25 am

Very astute observations, Chris.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 26 Oct 2005 7:57 am

"What brought this on?
I was demonstrating an 808 Drum machine!
For him, that was "our special song" !!!!"

That's a great story, and there ya go: the 808 is the traditional sound from the classic period of electronic music. What sounds today will survive as traditions and classics?

Pete Blakeslee · Post by **Pete Blakeslee** » 26 Oct 2005 9:53 am

Traditional country music is the Carter Family, Roy Acuff, Grandpa Jones. Remember, there was outrage when it was suggested that drums be allowed on the Grand Old Opry? Yet many of these posts assume that Haggard, Price, etc. (who always had drums) are playing traditional country music. I agree it is difficult to argue that they aren't.
"Tradition" by Webster definition is "the delivery of . . . practices, rites, and customs from generation to generation by oral communication." What many here seem to be objecting to is the disrespect for tradition shown by subsequent generations of musicians, although those very musicians may be performing traditional music and we just don't know it yet.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 26 Oct 2005 3:42 pm

Theresa You are right about Toby.Just listen to HONKY TONK U, who's it sound like? I know it has just a little steel part, but I still play it,If I remember to play it . It's a quick break, Maybe thats why so many steel players don't like the new stuff,don't get to play that much. I play it,better than not playing at all. Joe
www.willowcreekband.com