Pride of Cucamonga

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 19 Aug 2003 7:28 am

Hi Folks,

I don't typically participate in this topic, but I felt I needed to say something in this case.

Yes, it's the Great Jerry Garcia Debate Thing again.

I don't know that much about the Dead, and I only heard the song Pride of Cucamonga for the first time this weekend on the radio. But I just have to say that I thought the pedal steel playing was just fabulous. It had a cool, old school, west coast twang to it and was so full of joy & enthusiasm --absolutely infectious and a blast to listen to. AND it was IN TUNE!!!

I'm presuming it was Jerry on steel. (Anyone have info on this?) Anyway, if it WAS Jerry, I can't see why so many steelers seem to resent him. It's obvious listening to this tune that he had a great love for the instrument and a real knack for it.

Sorry to bring this topic up again, but I just had to throw in my two cents about this fellow California steeler whose playing seems to get slammed so much. I just don't get it!

-GV

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 19 Aug 2003 7:47 am

John McFee - pedal steel on Pride Of Cucamonga.

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Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 19 Aug 2003 8:16 am

Oh...

He's good!

-GV

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 19 Aug 2003 8:57 am

I know... I also was surprised to find out
it wasn't Garcia. I'd love to know the background on that decision..

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Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 19 Aug 2003 10:27 am

It might have had something to do with skills and abilities....

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Aug 2003 11:27 am

Being a steel fan and player, Jerry would have wanted to showcase someone he liked.
He may not have been the hottest steeler ever, but Mr. Garcia was a supurb all around musician on several instuments.

And he knew and was country. Just listen to Old And In The Way or Working Mans Dead.
He also was other things too.

He bought a lot of none country oriented people in to the country world.
For that we should be grateful.
I for one will never speak ill of the DEAD.

Grant Johnson · Post by **Grant Johnson** » 19 Aug 2003 2:57 pm

I think by the time that Mars Hotel came out, Garcia was not playing pedal steel. I recall that he said that it took too much time away from his six string efforts....

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 19 Aug 2003 6:42 pm

I heard John McFee play steel live a few times and was impressed. He didn't play anything the least bit fancy but it sure was tasteful and I loved his tone. Last time I heard him was towards the end of Southern Pacific. (Er, the band - not the musical...

)

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 19 Aug 2003 11:12 pm

Grant's got it. When Garica hired Cage to take his chair in the new riders, it was because he needed to pay attention to his day gig, which was regular guitar. He was not playing much steel at all by the time Mars Hotel came out. (If any). In addition to steel, Garcia was also a standout banjo player-he won some pretty prestigious awards as I recall-I'll have to look it up, but in 64 and 65 he was one of the top up and comers on the instrument in the country. No contraversy about his skills there. Listen to Old and In The Way...

JB

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 20 Aug 2003 10:57 am

Chris Bauer:

"He didn't play anything the least bit fancy but it sure was tasteful and I loved his tone."

That's exactly the way I felt about McFee's playing on the Dead tune I heard this weekend. Lots of standard "country" licks but really well placed with a cool tone.

Anyone know anything more about Mr. McFee?

-GV [This message was edited by Greg Vincent on 20 August 2003 at 11:58 AM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 20 Aug 2003 11:38 am

Mc Fee I believe played with "Clover" an SF Country Rock band that had the distinction of backing Elvis Costello on his 'My Aim Is True" album.. McFee played steel on the cut "Radio Sweetheart" (HOT CHA!) and also played on an EP with Costello done with the London Symphony-pretty sure it was Gram Parsons "Hot Burrito #1" - Mc Fee played on other EC stuff as well

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 20 Aug 2003 3:35 pm

I don't know a lot about him, but can add this: He seemed to be the guy to call in the Bay Area in the early 70's for steel playing on rock albums; "Tupelo Honey" by Van Morrison with "Wild Night" among others, and at least one or 2 Boz Scaggs things. And I suspect he thinks of himself as more of a guitar player who plays some steel too. During the '80's "Southern Pacific" had several successful mainstream country hits and he toured that circuit. I crossed paths with him several times then when I was with Foster and Lloyd and he was always cool to hang out with. But, I think his main meal ticket for a long time has been as a "Doobie Brother", and if I'm not mistaken he still does that. I suspect that's at least mostly guitar, with maybe a few songs on steel... anyone out there know?[This message was edited by Pete Finney on 20 August 2003 at 04:36 PM.]

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 20 Aug 2003 5:33 pm

Pete,

As far as I know, everything you wrote is on the money. He's definitely always been a 'mostly guitar guy' but who's always had a great feel for steel. That said, I think that the steel playing he did with Clover was by far the least interesting of the steel work I've heard by him. Of course, he was also that much more of a beginner in those days. Plus, Clover was one of those bands who were a blast to see live but never really figured out how to make it work in the studio.

As a side note, I've seen the bass player from that band reappear now and then working with Bonnie Rait and other various cool folks, only to disappear again into (I believe...) his chiropractic practice in LA. No clue what happened to the other members of that band. Anyone know?

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 20 Aug 2003 8:48 pm

Hi Chris, how are ya?

You obviously know more about Clover than I do; I'd heard of them all along but all I've actually ever heard was "My Aim is True", which I loved then and still do... but, wasn't Clover's harmonica player a certain Huey Lewis? Seems he did okay for himself...

[This message was edited by Pete Finney on 20 August 2003 at 09:49 PM.]

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 21 Aug 2003 3:54 am

Hi Pete - (Long time!)

Oooooops. Now there's a tawdry ommission on my part. I'd forgotten that Mr Lewis was ever a part of that group. (Geeeeez, next thing someone else will recall that the whole group was made up of stars-to-be and that McFee was some kinda underachiever by comparrison!)

As for the Elvis Costello stuff, I also remain a huge fan.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 21 Aug 2003 4:13 am

If you guys want to hear some really cool stuff, find copies of Norton Buffalo's two albums on "Capitol/EMI" from 1977 and 1978. They were called "Lovin' In the Valley of the Moon" and "Desert Horizon". Norton was using two steel players at the same time for some stuff. McFee was one, and Fred Jones another. Some of my favorite records in the over 3000 LP's I own.
Dave Ristrim

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 21 Aug 2003 4:31 am

What ever happened to Fred Jones (and what else did he do)? I always liked the steel on those albums too but never had any clue who Fred was. I always assumed he was a Bay Area/ Sonoma guy but our paths never crossed and no one I knew back then seemed to know him either. (Until you mentioned him, I'd forgotten all about him.)

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 21 Aug 2003 10:09 am

If I'm not mistaken there was a third steel player, Bobby Black, on certain selections of the Norton Buffalo albums.
As for J. McFee and the gang it seems the Doobie's are working a lot this year, clear into the fall. See doobiebros.com for tour dates. John designed nearly all of the website, save for one logo created by his son.
John, a 5 time Grammy winner, can be described as a multi-instrumentalist, be it on guitar, pedal steel,dobro, fiddle, mandolin, harmonica, electric sitar, and of course he does vocals too.
He and other members of The Doobie's have spent time each year producing and touring with Japan's best known rock star, Eikichi Yozawa.
John also has a concern with the plight of the Native American ,which led to his composition "Trail of Tears" which appeared on one of the Southern Pacific albums. Pretty cool tune, I think.
In another interview, he made reference to what he had in his car's CD changer and lamented that he didn't have any Buddy Emmons or Chet Atkins to listen to, at least at that time. And he attributed the break-up of Southern Pacific to "management problems."
As a side note, by 1996, the album "Best of the Doobies" had reached Diamond status, that's ten million units sold. Not bad.

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 25 Aug 2003 9:34 am

just a little tidbit about Jerry...

there's a movie called 'Fillmore' which documents the closing of the Fillmore West in 1974.
Jerry sits in with the New Riders during soundcheck and plays Cage's Emmons guitar.

He definitely still had chops in '74, and he's got the palm-blocking thing down.

Jerry was an extremely humble guy, and I'm sure he chose not to do the solo on "Pride of Cucamonga"... he and John McFee were probably pals, too.

Jer's playing on 'Workingman's' and 'Beauty' as well as countless other recordings speaks for itself. Not everyone's cup-o-tea, but it influenced me greatly.

He dusted off the steel in '87 when the Dead toured with Bob Dylan. Sweet stuff.

Cairo Zoots · Post by **Cairo Zoots** » 29 Aug 2003 2:01 pm

I actually worked for "The pride of Cucamonga", Shane Dominic. Whutta gig! The club/restaurant was called "Casa Dinero". Formerly an old bank, the owner, Shane and his wife, had a popular place there on Foothill Blvd in Cucamonga. (Charlie Kears - Drums, Jim Luddington - Lead Guitar, Willie McGregor - Bass/Vocals, Shane Dominic - Vocals/Rhythmn guitar & Leader). Cheez! That was like 25-30 yrs ago!! Seems like only yesterday!!

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ree-00-dee-doo

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 29 Aug 2003 5:17 pm

i saw clover in berkeley way back whenever...all i really remember were the curved knee levers of his sho-bud hangin' down...way before i ever had one.

Chris Newell · Post by **Chris Newell** » 21 Jul 2005 9:49 am

Here is an interview I found with John McFee and Huey Lewis done in 1976...

John McFee: They're a fairly unknown band! They had this song ("Pride Of Cucamonga") and Garcia had been trying to do the steel part for like two weeks or something and he just couldn't come up with the part.

Huey Lewis: Roy Siegal had been engineering the sessions and he's a friend of ours 'cause we've done a lot sessions with him. He had been listening to Jerry playing steel and Phil Lesh and Bobby Weir, I guess, were in the studio and he said, 'Hey, I know a guy who could do this in one take', so they said, 'Oh, that's fine Jerry'. So they brought in McFee and he did it. But Jerry Garcia is one of the greatest. He's a great, great, great cat. He's such a laid back cat he just mellows the whole room. He's a great guitar player, but McFee definitely did the steel sessions he couldn't handle. I think Jerry just had a flirt with the pedal steel. 
Chris Newell

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 21 Jul 2005 10:21 am

Here the link to Clover with interviews and pictures.

http://www.clover-infopage.com/

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 21 Jul 2005 2:38 pm

Hey Pete, that was news to me that John McFee was thew steeler on "Wild Nite", kind of surprizing considering how flat the steel is... I make a point of playing that lick falt on purpose, when I play the song.... cracks me up every time.... kind of like doing "Fire on the Mountain", lucky for me I have some friends with a good sense of humor.

However Greg, if you want to hear something really hot by John McFee, listen to his blazing lap steel parts on S. Pacfic's "Reno Bound" absolutley instpirational... and his guitar playing is absolutely in a class by itself.

All IMHO, no flaming please, consider my fragile age.. (:>)>=[

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 21 Jul 2005 4:09 pm

did he play the take with Van morrison