Ever been out of tune on a recording???

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 23 Apr 2005 7:57 am

Man I am!!... I was just listening to some old records[cassette tapes actually[ I have played on... yikes pretty frightening!! I seem to recall most of the "pitchy" stuff[parts of solos,intros etc] was on LOW buget sessions, where I did not get paid, and the "artist" had to look under the floor mat in his car for nickels to pay for the recording time. There was NO money for retakes and a lot of nasty stuff was left on, when it should have been burned with the rest of the trash.. I am beginning to think I stink, and that the out of tune stuff is the way I REALLY play!!!... PLEASE someone tell me that YOU have sounded out of tune on a "bottom feeder" studio date.... bob

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 23 Apr 2005 8:16 am

Your'e not alone, Bob.
On one recording session, many years ago, I was getting to know the song, and playing along with it, noodling, seeing what fitted, for the recording proper. I hadn't even got my picks on.
I hadn't tuned up yet, the steel was only just out of the case.
Sure enough, after this first run-through, the producer said 'that's fine, that's just what we're looking for, adios amigo'.
I can't listen to that recording, it's just terrible.
R B

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Apr 2005 8:22 am

What do you call "IN TUNE"? With the guitar that's never in tune? The singer that's never in tune? The piano that's tempored differently that you? Fiddle player "IN TU NE"? With your tuner that's different than what your ear want's to hear?
Just exactly what do you call, "IN TUNE"??? Sort of an average somewhere in the middle? There is absolutly no such thing as being perfectly "in tune". And it's a good thing there isn't. Music sounds much sweeter and richer, much warmer and soulful, less plastic if not perfectly (close) to being in tune. Sure, "out of tune" can be over done, but so can being "in tune".
Ever listen to the "Motown Sound"? Never even close to being in tune, ever!
But sounded great, exciting, soulful, I loved it. Get you tuning close, then just count the money! $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Bobbe

bobbe[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 23 April 2005 at 09:28 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Apr 2005 8:31 am

Out of tune? In relation to what???

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Apr 2005 8:37 am

I call them "Window Flippers", as in listen to them halfway home, and flip them out the window. In the winter they become Ice Scrapers™.

Some of the ones where I was noticeably "in tune" got flipped out the window first.

It is as Bobbe says, and why I've found that following ears around can really drive you nuts. Even your own.

That's why I use a "Secret Tempered Tuning Chart" I got in a seance.

Anybody that it sounds out of tune to, I figure just isn't sofistacated enuf to hear all the notes, like that east indian stuff.

It hasn't missed yet.

EJL

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 23 Apr 2005 8:47 am

A while back there was a thread in here about electronic tuners and how the cool dude musicians would never use one. Does this thread give an electronic tuner some credibility for some instances?

In a bar or club gig setting, being in tune can be “close” and it will sound good. In a studio setting, there should be no second guessing. Either you are or you are not. Plain and simple.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 23 Apr 2005 8:54 am

Eric.. Don't do that to me.. I almost peed myself laughing ... Window flippers!!.. that was a beaut!... Well if anyone needs ice scrapers, I have BOX full. window flippers...Its a good thing we don't use vinyl any more!! bob

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Apr 2005 9:32 am

Bob C., now you see why I'm an Eric West fan.
How can anyone that nuts be that intelligent?

Yea, window flippers! Love it!

Les, there is no "in tune or not".

bobbe[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 23 April 2005 at 10:34 AM.]

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 23 Apr 2005 9:42 am

An old timer once told me that if the band is a little out of tune with each other,...."It sounds like there's more of us."

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 23 Apr 2005 9:49 am

IN TUNE?? WHAT IS THAT??? IMPODDSBILITY, THATS A FACT......YEARS AGO I ADOPTED THE ATTITUDE, PLAY OUT "OF TUNE" AND IT WILL SOUND LIKE THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE IN THE BAND.. CHET TAUGHT ME THAT TO MAKE ALL MY MISTAKES INTENTIONAL, INCLUDING TUNING.... BUDDY SAYS IF IT IS NOT PLEASING TO THE EAR, WELL, YOU CAN GUESS THE REST COMING FROM HIM.. I WILL NOT QUOTE HIM.. EVERYONE WOULD THINK I AM LYING, LAYING, PRONE, WHATEVER. JUST EAT A LOT OF POSSUM AND ENJOY LIFE..
JENNINGS...........

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Lee Warren · Post by **Lee Warren** » 23 Apr 2005 10:06 am

Can you tuna possum?

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Apr 2005 10:17 am

No, but you can tuna fish.............
Show me a player of any instrument that thinks he's perfectly in tune with a whole band, and I'll show you a guy that can't hear very well! And believe me, there are a lot of players that think they can hear that really are delusional about pitch.
Show me a farmer in high heels and I'll show you a "dairy queen". (makes as much sense as arguing about tuning!)
[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 23 April 2005 at 05:07 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 23 Apr 2005 10:17 am

Bob C., you're not alone. I agree, there's no 'exactly in tune' in practice, but sometimes it's not questionable, but flat-out 'not right'. Particularly, recordings of live gigs can be frightening. In the maelstrom of a loud live gig, the subtleties are lost on the bandstand, but the recorder don't lie. But I still like to hear this stuff - I can't ever get better until I hear and acknowledge the problems.

Lee Warren · Post by **Lee Warren** » 23 Apr 2005 10:23 am

Every session I've done has been so in tune, and the licks so original that I get paid 10 times scale ...
THEN I wake up! =)
LOL

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 23 Apr 2005 10:30 am

still am

t

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 23 Apr 2005 10:33 am

10 times scale!!!.. what kind of scale??? carp? crappie? pike? tuna? gefilte?

bob

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 23 Apr 2005 10:52 am

Give me an E,then 12 beers,man what a sound!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Apr 2005 11:05 am

The question should be.. who HASN'T been out of tune in a recording.

Being in tune on a recording is an
InPossumBility...

The best music productions are a combination of wrongs
coming together just right.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 23 April 2005 at 03:39 PM.]

Robby Springfield · Post by **Robby Springfield** » 23 Apr 2005 3:46 pm

Bobbe S. "There is absolutly no such thing as being perfectly "in tune". And it's a good thing there isn't. Music sounds much sweeter and richer, much warmer and soulful, less plastic if not perfectly (close) to being in tune."

You'll have to tell the rest of us where you're buying your drugs!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Apr 2005 3:58 pm

Bobby Springfield, I bet you don't even know that E 9th Fretboards are temperd differently that C 6th fretboards, do you even know what musical temporing is? Do you know the difference between a musical mathamatical scale and a tempered scale?
I bet you really play in tune. I'd love to check your guitar for you sometime, I guess you think you are "in tune" if the needle on your Korg indicates 440 on every note, huh?
Why do you think Peterson tuners are set up to tune you "out of tune so you can be in tune".
Bobby, let me see you add to this post by telling us all how you tune! How do you tune? To what? The singer? 440 to every thing? Bet your E to F lever really sounds great! Drugs? Don't need them, I have ears instead. What do you use?

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 23 Apr 2005 4:01 pm

DAVID, YOU ARE STARTING TO GET THE HANG OF IT NOW......" ImPossumBility." WISH I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT....GOOOOOOOOODDDD..... WHO CARES IF YOU ARE IN TUNE IF YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFYLL CROSSEYED BLOND EYEING YOU...???
FERRIS, ONLY 12 ???? IS THAT THE FIRST HOUR??? LARRY THAT CACTUS JUICE IS WICKED..I STILL PREFER MY POSSUM,,,,,,,,JW

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Apr 2005 5:12 pm

Imagine a big string or brass section being perfectly in tune. The violins would sound like one big loud violin, and not very warm or pretty. Why have a dozen horns in a band if they sound like one? Yes, kid all you want, but being slightly out of tune will sound like more. This is the object. More and prettier.
There is a famous Nashville country group in which the steel player told me that their "band was always exactly in tune". I saw them live on TV one night and they were so far out of tune that the whole town thought it was hilarious. I confronted the steel player about it a few days later and his reply was, I couldn't have been out of tune, I have a LeGrande III with compensators.
Some folks reasoning just can't be argued with. The steel was black too, so it had to sound good! All the instruments in the band should have been painted black. Yep, Black.
This was like saying, well, never mind.
There is a happy medium here folks, it can't be exact, nor should it be, but lets get it as close as we can! (To our ears)
Come on guys, lets hear some thoughts on this very important subject,

Jonathan Gregg · Post by **Jonathan Gregg** » 23 Apr 2005 5:36 pm

The problem is that obviously at some point in tthe proceedings you thought you were in tune, whatever that means... and then when you hear these sourish tones coming back at you, you start to question your judgment...

Jonathan Gregg · Post by **Jonathan Gregg** » 23 Apr 2005 5:37 pm

btw, leave it to the man from Candor to raise this squeamish issue...

Robby Springfield · Post by **Robby Springfield** » 23 Apr 2005 6:04 pm

Bobby, first, my name is Robby instead of Bobby. What do I use to tune with? I can safely say that I don’t use excuses! Let’s see…tempered tuning, mathematical scales, and different tempered fret boards??? Topics like that weren’t around when I played on my first few hit records. Oh yes…they are still calling me for session work…and I don’t even mind the producers or the artists or driving across town or even the set up and tear down time. As a matter of fact, I am still grateful to be working after 38 years of playing steel and I didn’t even have to start another business to stay alive.

Everyone knows, including me, that “perfect tuning” is quite the battle. Funny, I always thought that the fret board was just a guide to get you close and the rest was up to the player’s ear. You’re right; I had no idea that there was a mathematical solution to the tuning issue…I should have ask you! I’m sure you would have told me…or should I say, US! For the record, I tune one note on each neck with a tuner and tune the rest the old fashion way, by ear. And of course, my E to F is a little flat, but nothing that a little bar slat or a few other tricks won’t take care of. Don’t get me wrong, I still fight it like everyone else but I’ll be D___M if I’m gonna walk off from the record and say, well you know the singer was out of tune or the guitar player’s B string is always sharp on the 3rd fret…sounds like a losers limp to me!

The whole point here is the guy that started the thread could use some encouragement from some of us…not a know-it-all chiming in with “it can’t be done”! I guess someone, maybe you, forgot to tell Buddy E. or Jimmy D, John H. or Paul F. that perfect tuning is impossible. They sound pretty good to most of us…but I’m sure none of us have the knowledge that you do.

As for drugs…maybe you SHOULD try something to lighten up a bit. I was just kidding…KIND OF! But you seem to have taking it very personal. All I can say is…BRING IT ON! Or you could just forgive and forget and I could come over and take some lessons from you on this tempered, mathematical, fret board stuff before I lose all my gigs.

Ta Ta