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Author Topic:  The Beach Boys and pedal steel.....
Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 5:40 am    
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This is probably common knowledge, but does anyone know who played steel on their version of 'Cottonfields'?

I bought the 'Sunflower' album back in England in 1970 or so, and this track was included (with a published date of 1963!), but the recently-issued CD version doesn't have it - does anyone know WHEN it was recorded?

Thanks...
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scott murray


From:
Asheville, NC
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 9:51 am    
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hey roger-
I believe "Cottonfields" was included on the '20/20' album from 1969, in a version that Brian Wilson arranged, and the steel guitar of Red Rhodes is barely audible.

Al Jardine, who sings the lead, then went back in the studio, rearranged it slightly, and made the steel the centerpiece of the tune. This version was released as a single in '69 or '70.

There's some pedal steel on their 'Carl & the Passions' album (also Red Rhodes I believe), and a small helping on the 'MIU' album from the late-70s.

Check out the 'Friends' album from '68 for a full-on steel guitar instrumental called "Diamond Head" played and co-written by Al Vescovo. It's pretty Hawaiian-sounding, and I think it was played on a standard C6 neck with pedals.

I think you can get 'Friends' and '20/20' on one disc now, and it has both versions of "Cottonfields" I think.

I'm a big fan of all those guys!

[This message was edited by scott murray on 29 August 2001 at 10:55 AM.]

[This message was edited by scott murray on 29 August 2001 at 10:56 AM.]

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Pat Burns

 

From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 9:56 am    
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...the Beatles were big fans of those guys..the Beach Boys were awesome...
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 11:09 am    
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Thanks for the replies!

Can you believe I've GOT that 'Friends/20-20' CD - I'm posting a reply BEFORE going to dig it out and playing it (it's still in its shrink wrap, so I'll get to hear it in about an hour's time!)

As a UK 'native', and a contemporary of the Beatles (I'm 5Cool who got to play on the same shows and heard them live quite frequently, I always wondered what all the fuss was about; I infinitely preferred the Beach Boys ('though I soon found myself in the minority!)

We did a live TV show called 'Ready, Steady, Go' in the mid-sixties (I worked for a singer called Eden Kane, who had a bunch of hits from '61 to '64), and the Beach Boys - including Brian Wilson - were due to play the show live. Their 'plane was late, and they arrived at the studio with no time for a proper sound check; I'll never forget them standing in their raincoats doing an instant 'a capella' version of 'I Get Around' for vocal levels - it was perfect!

Those guys really were 'awesome'....

Sorry, b0b, if this is stretching it a bit topic-wise! I'll stop now.....
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Martin Abend


From:
Berlin, Germany
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 11:15 am    
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If I remember correctly, Paul McCartney once said "God only knows" was his favourite song ever. The man has a good taste.

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martin abend Pedal-Steel in Germany
s-10 sierra crown gearless 3 x4 - Regal RD45 - fender hotrod deluxe

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Jason Stillwell


From:
Caddo, OK, USA
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 2:19 pm    
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Hello!! I can't believe I actually get to discuss my two favorite topics on the same forum!! I just can't believe someone beat me to the punch (and so accurately, I might add.) I, too, can listen to the Beatles and wonder what all the fuss is about. I can listen to the Beach Boys and be placed in AWE!! From the simplest of their simple songs (okay, even they are not THAT simple) to the weirdest of weird on Smiley Smile, those folks had THAT something. I'm 26 years old, and was born out of due time. I play steel and listen to the Beach Boys. I've followed them around since I was 12, have met most of them, including Brian, (but never Carl ) Dang!! I think I'll go pull out my Friends&20/20 two-fer.

To add to the Beach Boys pedal steel listings, check out California Saga/California (On My Way to Sunny Californ-i-a). Blondie Chaplin plays some pretty authentic-sounding slide wanna-be steel. It's darn-near country!!

Have a good day, everyone. Good Vibes!!
Jason Stillwell
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Craig Stock


From:
Westfield, NJ USA
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 2:30 pm    
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Chuck Lettes ha s done some nice steel instrumentals of Beach Boy stuff. He sent me a tape last year after my post on the Boys. I still think it would be a great CD to have various players do covers of their music and put out a 'Steelin' the Beach Boys' CD. Their music transfers very well to the steel.

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Regards, Craig
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Jeff Lampert

 

From:
queens, new york city
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 6:08 pm    
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Quote:
I, too, can listen to the Beatles and wonder what all the fuss is about


Ya gots ta be kiddin'!!!

Penny Lane
Strawberry Fields Forever
Nowhere Man
Hard Day's Night soundtrack
Paperback Writer
Sgt. Peppers
Rubber Soul
Revolver

Ad infinitum.....
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 7:11 pm    
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Jeff
This discussion probably belongs elsewhere, but I'll push my luck and crave b0b's indulgence....

There's no disputing the breadth of their work as songwriters, but I always had a problem with their actual playing - it was clumsy at best. I'd been brought up on a musical diet from the USA and, in the fifties and very early sixties, the standard of musicianship on American records (the Everlys, Ricky Nelson and others) far exceeded what British acts had to offer. The wave of successful UK groups was probably inevitable as US rock'n'roll had become a little uninspired and the Beatles represented a cultural revolution, but they were firmly rooted in American music - I just never felt that they played very well and, as a guitarist myself, this was of primary importance. To my intense disappointment even the Everlys were, by '65, trying to emulate that slightly ragged, less polished sound. The only glimmer of light, for me, came from the Beach Boys - they're playing, too, was rudimentary, but their singing left everyone else in the dust!

Apart from the advent of Burt Bacharach, I didn't enjoy the sixties much - then I got a steel guitar, and suddenly all that chart stuff didn't matter anymore .....

All just my take on things, but it wouldn't do for us all to agree on everything, would it?

Best,
RR
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Pat Burns

 

From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 7:51 pm    
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..the studio work of Brian Wilson and George Martin/Beatles left everybody else in the dust, too....both groups were ultimately studio artists without peer...as much as I like Pink Floyd, even they're not in the same league...
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Cal Sharp


From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
Post  Posted 29 Aug 2001 7:59 pm    
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Junior Brown cut "409" with, I think, the BB singing backup. Pretty cool.

C#
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Allen Peterson

 

From:
Katy, Texas
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 4:17 am    
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Yeah Roger, some of the sixties musicians in the UK really sucked; guys like Eric Clapton, Jimmie Page, Peter Green, Ritchie Blackmore, Jon Lord, Ronnie Woods, George Harrison and Paul McCartney. I don't think any of them knew the first thing about their instruments. Just kidding.
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Allen Peterson

 

From:
Katy, Texas
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 4:46 am    
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Yeah Roger, the quality of UK musicianship really sucked in the sixties; guys like Peter Green, Eric Clapton, Jimmie Page, George Harrison, Paul McCartney, Ritchie Blackmoor, Jon Lord and Ronnie Wood to name a few. Bands like the Beatles, the Stones, the Yardbirds, the Who, Savoy Brown Blues Band and the Kinks were just horrible. I don't think any of these guys knew the first thing about their instruments. Just kidding. Your point is well taken though, and there was definitely a strong US influence in their music. I think the Beatles tried to emmulate the Beach Boys' harmony in Back in the USSR, but in my opinion they never really got it right. The UK may have lagged behind the US in the early sixties, but they sure made up for it in the late sixties. Sorry about the double post. I don't know what happened. I guess my first attempt didn't quite make it, so I tried again.

[This message was edited by Allen Peterson on 30 August 2001 at 05:49 AM.]

[This message was edited by Allen Peterson on 30 August 2001 at 06:07 AM.]

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Jonathan Gregg

 

From:
New York City
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 12:02 pm    
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I've been trying to work up a steel arrangement for In My Room, which is amazingly suited to the instrument, both musically and lyrically. if I ever get it together I'll post it and see what everyone can do to improve it.
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Larry Bell


From:
Englewood, Florida
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 12:28 pm    
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Jonathan,
I play 'In My Room' instrumentally. Lays really great on E9 -- go for the B+C pedals for the harmony on the verse. I'll be interested to see what you come up with but unfortunately don't have time to tab my arrangement right now.

Good luck.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 12:54 pm    
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Allen
I think I clearly specified the fifties and EARLY sixties in my 'post' as the period during which us British musicians had a lot to learn. While I don't concur that ALL the names you mention are worthy of the highest praise, I wouldn't argue with you in general prinipal.

BUT... it wasn't until the mid to late sixties that this talent really started to blossom. During that earlier period all of us were in awe of James Burton, Cliff Gallup, Hank Garland and Chet Atkins to name a handful - there wasn't anyone in the UK who came close to these guys (with the possible exception of a certain prodigy named Albert who was quietly 'woodshedding' Jimmy Bryant solos at the time...)

It was inevitable that good British players would ultimately emerge, but I stand by what I said - back when I took up guitar (October '57) we all looked across the Atlantic for inspiration; in rock'n'roll terms, the UK was a musical wasteland...

The truth is that the music is, in essence, American, and the cultural fusion that melded rock, blues and country could only have happened here - it's no wonder it took the rest of the world a little while to catch up!

RR
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Allen Peterson

 

From:
Katy, Texas
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 1:19 pm    
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Roger,
You are absolutely correct. In the late 50s and early 60s the UK did not have much to offer in the way of new talent. This is why the Stones and the Beatles spent so much time copying the US artists like Buddy Holley and Elvis. I think Brian Jones of the Stones main influences were the old Chicago blues players and you can really hear the influence of Cochran, the Isley Brothers and Chuck Berry in the Beatles earlier stuff. I just wanted to point out that the UK caught up relatively quickly in the middle to late 60s, and that point in time the tide kind of turned for a while and we were being influenced by their music. At least I was. It is amazing how we start with the Beach Boys and the pedal steel and somehow get off on a tangent, but I think this has been an interesting thread.
Allen
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Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 4:41 pm    
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Allen

Now I'm back-pedalling a bit! Having generalised about British players, I have to concede that Paul was always a pretty good bass guitarist - in my view, the strongest musician in the band....

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

RR
PS: I got to play with George in the mid-'70s; I was doing a TV series with Eric Idle (a sort of Pythonesque 'spin-off') and George was featured. We did an odd tune called 'I want to be a Pirate'; it started with us playing the opening strains of 'My Sweet Lord' but GH has other ideas, changes the tempo and launches into his 'Pirate' song! One of my earliest sorties on pedal steel (an old ZB) and, I believe, available on obscure Harrison 'collection' albums.
I haven't heard it since then and I dread to think what the steel playing is like.....
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John Gretzinger


From:
Canoga Park, CA
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 5:28 pm    
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Cal -

The album you are thinking of is "Stars and Stripes Vol. 1" This was a collection of various Country artists signgin with/fronting various songs.

Greg Leisz plays steel on "Don't Worry Baby" - Lorrie Morgan; "Warmth of The Sun" - Willie Nelson; and "Caroline, No" - Timothy B. Schmit. Sonny Garish plays on "Sloop John B." - Colin Raye and as you mentioned Junior Brown plays his Guit-Steel on "409"

Fun Album.

jdg

------------------
MSA D-10
'63 Gibson Hummingbird
16/15c Hammered Dulcimer

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Allen Peterson

 

From:
Katy, Texas
Post  Posted 30 Aug 2001 6:35 pm    
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Roger,
You probably are not giving your self enough credit with your brief stint playing with GH. He probably was not sure himself what a pedal steel should sound like. Based on how out of tune his guitar sounds on the "Live at the BBC" collection, I'm pretty sure you could have played almost anything and it would have sounded ok to him. All I know is that if I had the chance to play with GH I would be pretty nervous, probably to the point of freezing up. So, you shouldn't be too critical of yourself.

I agree with your assessment of McCartney's bass playing. His lines are so melodic that they are nearly songs within songs. The amazing thing is that he can sing while playing these complicated bass parts.
Allen

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Randy Pettit

 

From:
North Texas USA
Post  Posted 31 Aug 2001 7:51 am    
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IMHO, McCartney may be the most underrated bass player ever. Remember, he played guitar with the Beatles while (whilst) Stu Sutcliffe struggled on bass, eventually taking over that role with essentially no rock bass player models to copy at the time. Also, I think the UK plus Ireland has produced an inordinately high proportion of excellent musicians during the past 40 or so years. As Roger stated, of course, it began with folks copying US musical styles. But my personal theory is that the English language itself had more to do with the successes on both sides of the Atlantic. There may be no other language on Earth that is so expressive and versatile in telling a story for such varied genres of music, that can connect with such a mass audience.
"I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread." (How would that translate in Italian or German?)
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Jason Odd


From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
Post  Posted 31 Aug 2001 8:10 am    
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US groups inspired by the Beatles:

The Byrds, 1964: later begat Crosby Stills & Nash, the Flying Burrito Brothers, Dillard & Clarke, etc.

The Lovin' Spoonful 1964: later begat solo career for John Sebastian and Zal.

Sir Raleigh & The Coupons 1964: a group of L.A. pickers, Norm Raleigh (ex-Gene Davis band), Sneaky Pete Kleinow (ex-Smokey Rogers), Al Harris (ex-Ricky Nelson), Johnny Meeks (ex-Champs, Gene Vincent), Mel Taylor (ex-Gene Davis, the Ventures)... inspired by the Beatles, (in fact once told me that they thought they were the Beatles they got so into it!)..these guys formed an L.A beat rock band, later Mel Taylor returned to the Ventures, so drummer/vocalist Dewey Martin joined, they recorded then split in 1965.. Dewey went on to help form a group called Buffalo Springfield with some guys..

The Sir Douglas Quintet 1964: this Texan band tried to emulate the Brit beat sound, but instead infused in with raw Texan R&B to make an exciting garage rock sound. The group begat the careers of Augie Meyers and Doug Sahm.

Others influenced by the Beatles include; the Everly Brothers, Nelson, the Knickerbockers, the Supremes, Joe Val, Jerry Inman, Bob Dylan and some others who were obviously easier to impress.
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Craig Allen

 

From:
BEREA, KENTUCKY, USA
Post  Posted 31 Aug 2001 10:17 am    
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Gee, I thought all this time that the Beatles Idolized Buck Owens, and Little Richard.

D.C.5..........One of the best bands from Britain at the time.
My personal tastes ran toward Gerry Marsden back then, though.
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Jason Stillwell


From:
Caddo, OK, USA
Post  Posted 31 Aug 2001 5:02 pm    
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Back to the Beach Boys, I played around with a steel guitar version of God Only Knows that has potential for being very beautiful. Check out the odd timing of "Hold On Dear Brother" from the Carl and the Passions - So Tough album. Pretty decent steel guitar tune, but odd timing for sure.
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Pat Burns

 

From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
Post  Posted 31 Aug 2001 7:20 pm    
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...I always thought the intro to "California Girls" was fantastic, as are the chord changes in the song, the way they're set against the harmonies...that song as done by the Beach Boys has a beautiful arrangement...
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