The Steel Guitar Forum

Just talking to friends who teach steel,having same problem,getting students to hear chord changes. we take it for granite,playing guitar most my life.but everyone can't hear the changes coming.any sugestions?? farris

Hey Farris....

I'd try discussing some of the most typical progressions / formats they'd encounter~ 12 & 16 bar blues, the 32 bar tin-pan alley stuff, etc etc... Use Roman or Nashville number systems. Break that stuff down into separate "chord cadences" (ie~ ii-V-I, I-IV, I-V7, I-II7...)

You can talk about this stuff til your blue in the face to no avail. So make the students sit down and do some harmonic analysis using the number system~ once they start writing it out they'll hopefully see some similarities from tune to tune and it will start to click...

-Mike

Hi Farris, the best method I have had much success with is to have a simple song pattern playing. When the song is in the one chord, have the student play the chord in time to the beat. (If it is a four/four beat, let him pluck the one chord each beat). Tell him not to change chords and listen for the discontinent sound when the song changes chords and he doesn't. Bet it won't take too long for your student to recognize the chord changes if he has any sense of timing at all..Worked quite well for me every time I had to use it. Even surprised the students. Good luck.

Bill Stafford

Hi Farris,

I teach guitar and steel to beginner to intermediate students, and spend a few minutes every couple of weeks talking about chord texture - that chords tell you to "go somewhere" (like a 7th chord telling you to go to a 4 chord, or a minor chord displaying sadness etc. or a augmented chord being played just before you get into an argument...just kidding). I always have the circle of fifths on the wall to discuss the chords around the root chord.

Once a month or so, we'll do some basic ear training exercises: I'll tell the student I'm going to play either a major or a minor chord, and they have to figure out which one it is after they hear it. The more talented kids will be put to the test with 7th's and major 7th's and even minor 7th's. For the 1,4,5, one could play the root chord and then the 4 or the 5 and ask the student which type of chord it is, similar to what Bill said.

Jamey Abersold has some excellent jazz training CD's on chord recognization as well as interval discernment.

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This may seem a little "out there" especially if you have never played bass,but have your student go take bass lessons for 6 mos. to a year. they'll come back with improved "hearing" skills and a better understanding of theory.

One way is to have them listen to the bass player- if it's country music, it'll probably be a giveaway for the chord changes, usually roots and 5ths...

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Very interesting guys.I play strickly by ear,its all i know.i can hear a change coming a mile away, ha anyway,i just could never figure out why anyone could not hear changes!!i taught a base player to play,and i couldn't even play base. drove me wild,playing along, i change,and he set there boom boom same key, i would yell Change damit change!!he finally got the hang of it.steel is different story,so many places to play same chords ect.but i love playing by the feel of it. farris

FERRIS, YOU HAVE OPEND A KEG OF WORMS AND FISH HOOKS....BEFORE TRYING TO TEACH ANYONE HOW TO PLAY AN INSTRUMENT, I WOULD SET THEM DOWN AND PLAY A TAP OR RECORD OR PLAY MY GUITAR.. I WOULD TELL THEM TO PAT THEIR FOOT IN TIME WITH THE MUSIC WHILE I WATCHED THEIR FOOT... IF THEY SPEEDED UP , SLOWED DOWN , MISSE A LOT OF BEATS, OR GET LOST AND TRY TO CATCH UP.. I MOSTLY TOLD THEM TO TAKE UP HORSE SHOOES OR WHITTLING.....IF A PERSON CANT KEEP TIME, THEY ALSO HAVE A BAD EAR AND CANT HEAR CHANGES ......I'LL SEND THEM HOME AND TELL THEM TO PRACTICE PATTING THEIR FOOT FOR TWO OR THREE WEEKS.. IF THEY COME BACK, THEY MUST PASS THE FOOT PASSING TEST, THEN I TELL THEM WHAT THE INSTRUMENT DOES, HOW TO TUNE, CARE AND MAINTNANCE OF THE INSTRUMENT.......THIS MAY SOUND HARSH, BUT IF A STUDENT DAN NOT COPREHEND THESE BASICS, JUST LIE TO HIM OR HER AND TAKE THEIR MONEW AND GO BUY YOU A POSSUM......JENNINGS

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

One trick I use for I IV V progressions is sing the root note of the tonic chord. If the chord changes and the note I am singing still sounds good then it is a IV chord. If I need to lower the note I'm singing a half step then it is a V chord.

If they practice they will get it.

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Bob
intonation help

I have no problem EXPLAINING the theory behind the logical E9 chord positions as they relate to pedals,knees etc to most students that have played standard guitar... but many otherwise fine musicians don't HEAR chord changes quickly on the steel until they have put the TIME in on pedal steel.
Like most here, I can hear those changes coming a mile away, but that is strictly a function of constantly DOING.. Playing night after night with different bands, practicing constantly etc.

I think any progressing but inexperienced player can only develop the ability to play through changing chords in a band situation, by playing,playing,playing, with as many different people as possible,,, bob

Basic ear training is a must.
My piano teachers were excellent, and group lessons always consisted of first hearing the difference in major and minor. Then the all-important I, IIm, IV, V, and VIm chords. Switching to bass was so simple after that. Pedal steel, yes, it's tougher, harder to see.

We watched 'Ray' the other night (highly recommended). This old dude showed Ray how to play a C, Eb, Bb melody over his major stride. The kid got it right away.
(I take great solace that Ray Charles, like me, never learned to read music. Hey, my name is Charles...!)

JENNINGS,can't believe you man,no fishing pole or hooks here man,i think anyone can pat there foot and clap there hands.our pastor once told my wife she was claping her hands backwards.always wondered what that meant.i believe everyone can pat a foot,am i wrong.we use to kid a guy at church. told him he couldn't sing.one day the pastor sit by him,he got up to speak and said, man i felt sorry for you.everone picking on you, but they are right,you can't sing!!!! hey he never changed chords even singing. farris

It really helps too, when jammin' with the fellas, to have a clue as to what the odd chord out may be. Last week, I don't remember what tune it was, I just remember the terror of knowing a chord was coming up that, it's coming...what is it? where is it gonna be? IT'S COMING, OH NO! I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO GO... (pause, wait, delay, do nothing, look like idiot), pick up at next major and keep going...<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 04 May 2005 at 07:14 AM.]</p></FONT>

May a newbie offer a suggestion? Buddy Emmons' chord chart and CD (E9 Chord Vocabulary) is great for hearing chord changes on the pedal steel. He moves a little quickly if the student does not already know music theory, but it is a great tool and bOb sells it for cheap right here on the forum.

Alan Keach has the right idea. Maybe not have them take bass guitar lessons, but just teach them the bass parts and how they represent the chord structure. Once they "hear" the bass parts, they will know what chords are above the bass.

How did you learn to recognize chord changes?

I don't think there's a good substitute for lots of time spent listening to the kind of music one wants to play. It's good to learn how to notate and then analyze the changes, but I've known/heard some real good musicians who couldn't do that well.

Jennings, you're right - developing good timing is critical. If one can't keep time, one can't tell when the chord change is coming up, which makes the whole thing confusing. It's one thing to analyze and understand changes on paper, and yet quite another to feel them.

I also agree that studying bass gives a great foundation for keeping rhythm and anticipating chord changes, since these responsibilities often fall on the bassist. I studied upright for less than a year in the 70s. Even with several years of previous classical piano study, it made a huge difference. Maybe this is taking it too far, but I think every musician should learn the fundamentals of how to think like a bass player.

Ditto's on listening closely to the bass.

Jeff Newman had a tape, called "play what you hear" which had a number of chord progressions on it, and it came with Nashville number charts. He used it
at a seminar I attended about 10 yrs ago,
and it's a great place to start. Jeff advised
us to listen to the bass line carefully, since it usually included the root notes
of the chords. I don't know if Fran is selling the tape or not.

FERRIS, I BELIEVE I SAID," IF YOU CANT PAT YOUR FOOT '' IN TIME '' YOU CANT HEAR THE CHORD CHANGES" AND IF YOU CANT HEAR , WELL ??????? NO AMOUNT OF " BOOK LARNIN " WILL SUFICE...... i HAVE A DAUGHTER THAT IS TONE DEAF, SHE CAN READ MUSIC, BUT HER PLAYING THE PIANO IS DRY AS DUST.. SHE CAN NOT " FEEL " THE MUSIC....CAN ANY ONE WXPLAIN IT BETTER.?? I HAVE ONE DAUGHTER THAT MAKES THE MUSIC SMOKE AND ONE THAT SINGS OPERA... AND EVERY THING ELSE THAT SHE WANT TO.....AND I HAVE ALWAYS STRESSED TIME TO THEM, THEN EAR TRAINING,,,, 2 OF MY GIRLS CAN AND DO TEACH MUSIC, THE KIND YOU MUST READ,, TWO CAN EASLY PLAY WITH THE OLD MAN, BUT THE ONE THAT IS TONE DEAF, MESSES EVERYONE UP IF SHE DOES NOT HAVE THE MUSIC IN FRONT OF HER,,, WHEN SHE SINGS, SO,RE,ME,FA,SO , LA, TE SO. IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE CONTINOUS NOTE, ONLY THE WORDS ARE DIFFERENT......THE OUTHER TWO GIRLS CAN SING THE CHROMATIC SCALE WITH EASE, AS WELL AS THE DITONIC AND PENTONIC....BETTER THAN ME....BUT THE MUST KEEP TIME, TIME , TIME. TIME!!!!!!!! NOTHING IN MUSIC IS AS IMPORTANT A TIMING, WHICH YOU CAN FOR PHRAZE CORRECTLY WITH OUT THE CORRECT TIME....IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME,,,,TRY IT......I'LL SHUT UP NOW...DOES ANYONE AGREE WITH ME?????

JENNINGS,,,,,,PLAY THAT ANGELIC SOUNDING STEEL.........

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Have them listen to "I Walk the Line." The guitar part leads up to and away from the IV and V chords every time. I use this for teaching modulation too: very easy to take in, I think.

Dan

I PREFER NOT TO THINK OF JC AND MUSIC ON THE SAME DAY... IT IS AN ABOSULUTE CONTRIDICTION IN TERMS......JC ,,,,,MUSIC...GAG, GAG, GAG,,GAG,UUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPPPPCHUCK.....
JENNINGS

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +