The Steel Guitar Forum

I play with a fiddler in my Irish band and often draw comparisons between the pedal steel and a fiddle. I'm in a bad mood today so please consider that as you read this post. Regards .. Jeff

A fiddle has 4 notes to tune, a pedal steel has anywhere from 10 to 24 strings, plus all the pedals and knee levers, meaning there are anywhere from 20 to 60 notes that have to be in tune.

A fiddle is plugged in and you're ready to go. A pedal steel has to be set up, and broken down.

A fiddler can be set up anywhere and played anywhere. A pedal steel player needs 10 square feet of space, which most of the time is twice the amount made available by the other band members.

A fiddle weighs 5 pounds, a pedal steel around 50, give or take. The fiddle is an acoustic instrument and can be plugged right into the PA with a crappy amp as a stage monitor. A pedal steel player needs "specially voiced" amplifiers than weigh 40-60 pounds.

Little can go wrong with a fiddle. You need to have the skills of a car mechanic to work on a pedal steel.

Fiddle players never worry about strings. Pedal steel players often break strings in the middle of a song.

Fiddlers jump around and have a blast. Pedal steel players sit stationary and even if they have fun, it's awful hard to tell.

The audience loves a fiddle-player and go crazy listening to Orange Blossom Special. The majority of an audience doesn't know what a pedal steel guitar is, and dozes off during Steel Guitar Rag.

Of course, the fiddler picks up chicks in-between sets. Of course, the pedal steel-player tunes up between sets.

During the 15 minute set-up period for a showcase, a fiddler plugs in and tunes up in 45 second, then relaxes, warms up, jokes with the sound guy, has a big grin on his face, etc. During the same 15 minutes, the pedal steel player has to find a space to play in, set up, tune up all those notes, make sure the lights aren't killing him, make sure the bass amp with the 4 15" speakers isn't 2 inches from his head, usually has a frown on his face, and has 5 strings left to tune as the count starts for the first song.

A fiddler has no problem with an outdoor gig. A pedal steel player has to make sure the ground is level, that there is cover in the case of rain, that his pak-a-seat isn't sinking in the mud, etc. etc.

A fiddle is called a violin at times. A pedal steel guitar is called a steel guitar at times ... as well as a Hawaiian guitar, a slide guitar, a steel pedal guitar, a pedal guitar, an organ, a piano, "that thing", etc. etc.

Bleh.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 28 October 2004 at 12:47 PM.]</p></FONT>

Oh my gosh... I wish I would have read this yesterday before I spent $1800 on my first steel. I own and play a fiddle a little bit too and was looking to add steel instead of fiddle as my third instrument (behind guitar and banjo), but now that you put it that way... it sure does suck being under appreciated and over worked. Now I'm in a bad mood too

Thanks for the post, Jeff. At least I know I'm not alone. -GV

.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:18 PM.]</p></FONT>

Steve, my post was meant a little in jest as well. Yes, there are inherent physical problems with lugging around a steel, setting up, getting it in tune, etc. But the depth and versatility in terms of how much can be played on it absolutely BLOWS AWAY a fiddle. That's the part I left out. What I can play on steel positively crushes anything the fiddler can even imagine. We're just waiting for the rest of the world to discover this. If you have a musical and creative mind, IMHO, the 6-string, piano, and steel are the only ways that allow you the limitless expression of those ideas.

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Jeff's Jazz

A couple of people told me this is very funny, so let it fly.

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Jeff's Jazz
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 28 October 2004 at 12:39 PM.]</p></FONT>

Has anyone ever tried runnin' a fiddle bow across the 10 strings to see what kinda noise it might make. Please no tryin' to hold the steel beneath the chin, I won't be responsible for the hernia.

I'm thinking of trading in my fiddle on a Harmonica !!!

....if you can get them to listen to Snuff Smith, to see how it's done....

I've often had similar thoughts. In the bands I've played with, it was the bass player who came back from the parking lot with a smile on his face....

Chas, Did you mean Stuff Smith or is Snuff someone else? Stuff used to bring his "fiddle" out to the Valley and jamb with Jimmy Bryant.THAT was a large time! Regards, Fred

"Cat On a Hot Fiddle", recorded in 1959 by Stuff Smith, is a favorite in my vinyl collection.

www.genejones.com

Well Jeff, there's downsides to everything. I have a friend, Warren Blair, who plays violin (he's too good to be called a "fiddler"), and he had a fellow band member turn around quickly and hit his violin with his elbow. He struck it right beside the bridge and knocked a 2" hole in the top of a $6,000 violin!

I never had that happen with my ol' MSA.

Maybe Warren should take up the banjo.

Fred, yup, Stuff. I worked with a jazz violinist and he was his hero. I got to hear some recordings that Stuff played on and they were marvelous, nothing played that didn't need to be there.

A GOOD FIDDLE PLAYER AND ALL THE REST WILL MAKE A GOOD BAND, SO FIDLE IS NOT ALL THAT'S IN A BAND, HELL YOU GOT DRUMS, BASS, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THEM WHAT HAVE YOU GOT, I GUESS YOU COULD GO SOLO AND HAVE FUN.

In addition to all the benefits of playing fiddle that Jeff pointed out....the fiddle itself has so many other good uses...trailer wheel chock...boat anchor...cat mating call

Sonny

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http://geocities.com/sonbone1
sonbone@geocities.com

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by sonbone on 28 October 2004 at 11:29 PM.]</p></FONT>

Oh maybe that's just for the fiddles of some of the guys I've played with that couldn't get in tune....

Sonny

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http://geocities.com/sonbone1
sonbone@geocities.com

Jeff..why didn't you post this up here on the Forum around '72 or '73 ? You would have saved many of us a lot of money , backaches, knees, vans, .011 strings and maybe a wife or two.. And think about all those tone arguments we all have participated in that we could have avoided!

t

Jeff,

I thought I added a reply yesterday but it never showed up.

I really wanted to say that my comment above was just me playing around. Your post did have a lot of truth to it, but I am very into learning this instrument. If I really wanted to play the fiddle, I would have kept playing on my grandpa's old one I have and could have gotten a descent one for $500. I spent the money on a steel because I really want to do it.

I will say I will miss being able to interact with the crowd when playing live. I think even if I'm having fun I will be concentrating so much I will be oblivous to my surroundings. But I guess as long as I can sling the banjo or guitar on for 10 songs a night, I can get my fix of that.

Fiddlers don't have a Forum as good as this one!

Ray,
There's a picture of Gary Morse in an 1980 Pedal Steeler Mag using a bow on PSG.

My thoughts.....He should be glad that he is not a ConcertGrand Piano player that must provide his own instrument and provide transportation and setup and tuning.....Jennings

Beautifull Angelic sound of the steel....

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Well Jeff....I do also sometimes feel the same things as you do. I like the seat legs sinking into the ground when you're playing out side. That really sucks. One of the things that amazes me is how little the average person has heard a steel play anything but little fills and maybe a solo now and then in a country tune. If you listen to top 40 radio that is all you get. So now when gigs are more scarse and they need a country band the steel man is out of a job. At least up here in my little corner of the world.

Yepper I no the feeling

This weekend I played a gig at a night club called Kickers here in Pueblo Colorado. I have worked hard with lots of hours after hours to learn all the PF, JH and the other great great steel players licks you here on the CDs, as well as some Dobro and Mandoline stuff. Every once in a while I'll have someone come up and they me that they injoyed my steel playing. Last night we played a couple of country rock songs and I got up on front stage and played the Harmonica with a lot of blues type riffs, the crowd went crazy, I had guys and gals coming up and giving me high five and hand shacks? go figure? I dont evan practise that thing. Harmonica, you bet, $200 worth of harmonicas, a quick mic check and you can go set with the fiddle player and watch everone else bust their butts in getting ready..... Aw Nope, I'm a steel man by heart and plan on staying that way.

Clay
Carter uni
Nashville 1000

You could always switch to lap steel. Just get a 6 or 8 string biscuit board and a little amp and a chair to sit on. You could set up in 2 minutes and go hang out at the bar with the fiddler, the harmonicat, and the kazooist, who may be thinking of downsizing to tissue-paper comb . .

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Rick Alexander
57 Fender Stringmaster T8, 57 Fender Champ, 59 Valco D8, 47 National New Yorker . .

Actually RICK beat me to the punch with this,but even though I play pedal steel,I decided to build a 10-string lap steel for my own amusement. Now I get more work playing the non-pedal than I did with the heavier evolutionary model. It really is a kind of freedom. Now if I could just put some legs on it and maybe a few knee levers...Hmmmm.
Oh yeah, JEFF, for whatever it is worth, I love your playing,pedals and all.
~~W.C.~~<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 02 November 2004 at 08:22 PM.]</p></FONT>