Q: for Herb Steiner re: Joaquin

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I seem to recall that Herb has Joaquin Murpey's old bar, and I am wondering about the dimensions of it - gosh he was fast! Herb's email is over limit, which is why I'm asking here.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I've had SEVERE email problems, due to Road Runner's server being overloaded with spam. So much so that I received a refund from the ISP. Hopefully, the problem has been resolved.

Regarding JM's bar, Michael Johnstone gave me Murph's last bar, which is a 1" Jim Dunlop 12-string bar. MJ did this as a favor to me. Michael has another bar of Murph's, which is a bullet bar with "JM" stamped on the bottom. I've seen photos of Murph which looked like he was holding a Black Rajah bakelite bar. Other than that, I have no earthly idea what he used, except that in the 1940's and 50's a smaller bar was standard.

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c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

When I was subbing in the Cooley bands in the 40s he was using a bar which was about the same size as the dunlap JB bar. I can.t remember the measurements though.

Roy Ayres · From: Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

The best I can recall, when I was bummin' around with Joaquin for about 4 months in the early 50's, his bar was about the same size as mine at that time -- which was a small, bullet bar made by the Oahu company. I don't have it with me on vacation, but it's at home, and I think the diameter is about 5/8 inch. I'm relatively sure Joaquin's bar was no larger than that. I think the inertia of a large, heavy bar like most of us use today would have affected his speed.

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Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I have a couple other of Murph's bars but the one that Herb is referring to is a tapered stainless bullet bar which measures 3 1/4" long and is 15/16ths" at the big end and tapers to 11/16ths" at the tip. Also it seems to have been drilled out and has a 3/8ths" orange plastic core. The Bar has a capital "J" stamped into the plastic part and partly into the metal at the big end. The bar seems to be pretty old and has quite a few small dings in the playing surface - like it's been around a while and used a lot. I've seen one just like it in an old Bigsby catalog so I'm 100% sure that's what it is considering how unusual it is in size and dimension - and the personalized stamped initial seems like a Paul Bigsby thing to do. I use it to practice on my Stringmaster around the house and it has mucho mojo. I wish someone would make one like it nowadays because it's a pretty good design for 8 string non-pedal. It slants and tips real easy - has a little beef to it and the small tip makes it easy to do the type picking mentioned earlier in this thread. No tellin what great solos Murph may have played with this very cool bar. I'll take it to my grave -MJ-

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

Hi Roy. I have been intending to contact you however it all comes down to tomorrow-------So here is my chance. I have been using your "Footprints" trax for a few months now on my solo gigs and the folks are eating them up. Guess what. The most popular trak is Tumble Weeds. Take care CC

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Thanks for the replies. I guess what I was trying to get to (obliquely) was whether the weight of today's bars has caused a change in playing style. I had one of those 1 X 3 3/4" Dunlop bars for a while, and I re-eally don't think anybody could play like Joaquin did on that "Texas Playboy Rag" provided by Walter Stettner, with an 11 ounce bar. I sure hope not! It seems likely to me that the peppiness of Joaquin's (and Speedy's) styles was assisted by their using a lighter bar. Roy Ayres sold me his old hollow 6 ounce bar, which I find much easier to zip & zoom around with than one of the modern behemoths.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

David, two things immediately come to mind regarding today's bars as opposed to those of yesteryear: first, the deep, long sustains that are prevalent in steel playing now really were not that frequent, and were obtained more by vibrato than by bar weight; and second, individual single notes had to be achieved by either the tuning or moving the bar, as opposed to the pedaling which came into vogue with Bud Isaacs' revolutionary style in 1953.

I'm willing to be corrected, though. My perspective is limited, since I started on steel guitar in the early 1960's. But my first bars were either Black Rajahs or Stevenses. I didn't get a 7/8x3-1/2 bar until 1967 or so.

Buddy Emmons (and others) might comment on this, and I wish he would. I recall him saying one time that the bar he used was made by his dad at his day job and was about the same size as today's standard bar.

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Roy Ayres · From: Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Hi there, "Double C"
Glad you are enjoying my tracks. And I, too, find the old Sons of the Pioneers "Tumbleweeds" to be popular.

And, To David:
I'm happy you are satisfied with my old bar. That old thing is many moons old, but was still like new when I sold it to you. I only gave it up because I needed one slightly longer.

Regards to all.

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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

IMHO, the size and type of bar that Joaquin used had very little to do with the way he played.

Great players are great players, no matter what they use!

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

In the words of the song, "it's not the meat it's the motion"...

That said, I find it a *whole* lot easier to do styles where I move the bar a lot with a Stevens type steel...

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c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

I never heard Joaquin say this but it has been credited to him; when asked how he tuned his guitar he said: " all are tuned to E,it cuts down on bar movement" CC

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff.

Joaquin Murphey solos book info and some free stuff : http://www.johnmcgann.com/joaquin.html

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Murph also once told a young Tom Morrell that he was using rubber strings to cut down on pick noise.

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

Michael,
I'd like to get a bar like that also. I wonder if there would be enough demand for one for BJS or somebody like that to tool up for a small run of those? Anybody else besides me like to have one of these old Bigsby style bars?

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

Well I guess the lack of response to my question above tells me how much demand there might be for one of these bars---0!

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I'd take a couple. I guess somebody should ask the various bar builders. If they were available I'm sure a lot of guys would give em a try. -MJ-

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I remember those old conical bars, they were around LA a lot in the 1960's, though I think the ones I saw were made by some company other than Bigsby. I never dug them all that much. Even though I'm queer for things Bigsby, I'd have to pass on a new one.

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Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

I am no expert on the bars you guys are talking about, but i once bought an old National resonator and in the storage compartment was a tapered bar or cone shaped bar in its original case that said "Chase."
I know Chase as a company in Battleborough, Mass or something like that. Chase made plain and chrome plated fly tying vises under their own name and under fly shop names, and they also made things like cocktail shakers, swizzle sticks, strainers and jiggers. Chase also used the name Chase-Holbrook.
Could these the bars you were thinking about, Herb?

Jussi Huhtakangas · From: Helsinki, Finland

Well, I just dug out my tapered Bigsby bar, ( which I don't use due to many dings on it ) and I find it being a very nice feeling bar. If there was a new one available I'd probably give it a shot. The split string slants are said to be hard with this type of bar, but I didn't notice a big difference compared to a regular bullet nose bar.

Mike Black · From: New Mexico, USA

Like Jussi this post caused me to go dig out the Bigsby bar. I'm not really crazy about the taper. Lots of lap steel bars were shaped with a taper of various degree back in the day. I don't think I'd buy a new bar with that shape.
I'd bet Bigbsy gave or sold Joaquin bars. There's shots with a Black Raja,(Speedy too)no doubt. But a steel bar may reflect black off the fretboard in a photo. I've a great 8x10 of him at his Bigsby but it's hard to tell if the bar is steel or a Black Raja because of reflection. It looks like the end is flat which is very typical of the B.R. bar.

[This message was edited by Mike Black on 16 October 2004 at 08:25 AM.]

[This message was edited by Mike Black on 16 October 2004 at 08:29 AM.]

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