The Steel Guitar Forum

Or I should ask, how many members of this forum play the "Country Music" that I like, and actually enjoy playing it?

The "Country" that I like is pretty much anything on the records by Gary Allan, Brad Paisley, Alan Jackson, Clint Black, Dierks Bentley, Joe Nichols, (early) Brooks & Dunn, and Patty Loveless. For extra female presence, there are a select number of songs I like (they're pretty easy to find, being the ones with a lot of steel up in the mix) from Martina McBride, Shania Twain, Gretchen Wilson, Terri Clark, and Sara Evans. I think the ladies, for the most part, though, get shuffled over to the canned-pop side of "Country music/New Country". Shame. I digress, though.

I know of the guys who make me love this music, but they aren't here and I don't fully know why. Randle Currie, Dan Dugmore, Robby Turner, Mike Johnson -- these guys, to my knowledge, never post on this forum; I haven't seen a post from Paul Franklin and Tommy White in months. These are guys who have made me want to play the pedal steel; I mean really want to learn to play this instrument well! The road players for these artists, many of whom I don't even know the names of (although I'm sure Brett Day would have a blast naming them off, all in under 40 seconds) don't seem to post here, either.

Tommy Dodd plays a bunch of stuff that perks my ears up. Mark van Allen laid down the steel foundation for Sugarland, a local Atlanta band who have some songs I like. Also, there's Tim Hamilton (who is also not a member of this forum), who plays some wicked pedal steel at Cowboys in Atlanta. That about does it for the players I can think of that might enjoy playing songs by those artists I mentioned above, though.

"Gone Country" and "I Don't Even Know Your Name" from AJ; "Me Neither" and "Make A Mistake With Me" by Brad Paisley; "Can't Hold a Halo to You" and "Don't Ruin It for the Rest of Us" by Joe Nichols; "Adobe Walls" and "Guys Like Me" by Gary Allan; and so on, ad nauseum. I never see these songs mentioned here, and it's disappointing, frankly. I do want to learn "Blue Jade" and "Farewell Party", and I think songs like these and of earlier eras than mine are really important to have an appreciation for, but I also want to learn these other songs that touched me, and I don't feel any support or encouragement to do so.

The impression that I get as a newcomer to this instrument is that the majority of the players are terribly obstinate and dislike everything new that I like, but they won't say if they've heard it or not; the ones that do like what I want to play -- the tiny, itty bitty minority -- are the ones that are out there cutting the music or playing it on the road, and are too busy and in too much demand to find the time to reach out to the people they inspire.

My friends, if they don't vehemently hate Country music (Why is this a genre that people either despise as the scum of the earth or love to their death?), they don't really much care for most of what I like in Country music. They say it's just a little "too Country". I know, you may laugh in disbelief, because to you it's "not Country 'nuff", but it is true. The people who say they like those artists usually only like the two or three "hits" that get overplayed on the meager rotations of the Top 40 station. The ones who attend the concerts just seem to be there to get drunk and get laid.

On the other side, the players I've met at the three steel guitar shows that I've attended (with the aforementioned possible exceptions) don't seem to care for any of it. I even heard Randy Beavers at the last jam I attended say, and I paraphrase here, that he was asked why the steel players don't play music from Nashville anymore, to which he replied, "Well, find us something worthwhile to play, and then we'll play it." That was really disheartening. No offense to you, Randy -- I love your playing to death and I've put a lot of miles on my autographed copy of A Few of My Favorite Things. I'm just being honest.

So I guess this is a last-ditch effort to see if there's actually anyone I can connect with on this issue (which is a small one in the grand scheme of things, but still important to me). If you like this music, if you know how to play it and enjoy it, or are trying to learn some of those licks because they inspire you or tickle your fancy, please, pipe up, give a sign that others are out there, and make a presence of such a group a little more known. If you happen to know any of those great steelers that I've mentioned, please, tell them what a big musical influence they are to me. I know I'm just one kid, but if I was told that my music reached someone else to the point of inspiring them to pick up an instrument, it would make my day. Maybe it could make one of theirs. Oh, and then ask them politely to join the forum.

If there's no one out there, that's fine. I'm still going to do my best to hack my way on this instrument to play things that fill my foolish heart with joy. If there is, though, it's always nice to have company. To quote Mark Twain, "Grief can take care of itself, but to get the full value of a joy you must have somebody to divide it with."

Lastly, thank you for reading this. Time is valuable, and about one of the only things you really can't get back. So, thanks for yours.

--Chris<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 22 August 2004 at 12:54 PM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>...the majority of the players are terribly obstinate and dislike everything new that I like...</SMALL>

Well, Chris, I understand how you might get that impression. I will say, however, that I find this to be true in almost <u>every</u> group of musicians or singers. We all like what we like, and we pretty much ignore the "other stuff". Be it in classical music, rap, reggae, rock, jazz, big band, bluegrass, old country, new country, folk, or whatever. (You find some real snobs in the classical, bluegrass, and jazz arenas.) I honestly can't say that's good or bad. It all depends on your point of view. One of music's most appealing characteristics is it's diversity. There's something out there for everybody, and that's because it's created <u>by</u> everybody. Lotsa guys here (including myself) have some pretty narrow viewpoints about what's good or bad. We like to hear what we like. Well, doesn't everyone? Most of us will be lucky enough to live long enough to see what we like fade away, and be replaced by something else that we don't particularly care for. It won't necessairily be better, but it'll be different - that's what we call "progress", and believe me, there's people out there who hate it.

Take what you like, and think you can learn from, and ignore the rest. Believe me, that's what <U>everybody</U> does, eventually. Nobody plays or sings it all, that would be impossible. Nobody even likes it all, despite what they may say. Human beings are imperfect creatures, and are all born with preferences and predjudices. Part of being human is accepting that fact.

I once had someone tell me that I was the most narrow-minded and intolerant person they'd ever met. I asked if they liked those qualities, and they said "No, of course not!" Then I said..."Well, doesn't that make you rather narrow-minded and intolerant, yourself?" (Got 'em thinking, anyway! )

If we all liked that same thing, we'd all probably be doing the same thing. That would be pretty boring, wouldn't it? Kick back and enjoy the occasional fracus that develops here. It doesn't mean that we hate each other, it just means we disagree. Anything wrong with that?

What you like, and what I like, is really rather unimportant in the grand scheme of things. The biggest stars? Our "idols"? Well, they're important...<i>right now<i>, but Father Time will make even them "has-beens" one day. It's a fact of life.

I don't know about you, but I learn more from those who disagree with me than I do from those who don't.

Donny. I think you put it quite nicely. I have always said I can enjoy any style of music played well. And just because it is not my style I try not to run it down. Just don't listen to it. The new "Country" is probably some fine music. My only problem is it is called country. And replaces the old country when there is some old style country being recorded but not played.

Chris,
The artists you mentioned all have some good tunes; sometimes they even have some great steel as well. However, a lot of the new tunes don't inspire me much (at least in the sense of wanting to learn them on steel.) Randy Beavers's (attributed) comment strikes home somewhat for me. I recently added CMT and GAC to my Dish Network service partly so I could play along with some of the songs on dobro or steel for practice. But when I went to do that, I listened for a long time and didn't find many memorable tunes. I could figure out the key pretty quickly and play along a bit, but after a song was over I certainly couldn't hum the tune or remember much about it. Now I'm not saying these folks aren't great singers - they are (IMO); but much of what I hear (*with a few exceptions*) has a rather pop feel and a somewhat airy quality to it. I miss the melodic character and rhythm and intensity of many of the classic hits. I shut off the TV, put on some Ray Price, Merle Haggard and Buck Owens recordings and started feeling a lot better. I still listen to CMT and GAC, but I find my attention wandering a lot... Maybe some of this newer stuff will start to grow on me and become "classic"...I don't know.
chas

Were out here Chris!
A lot more of us than will probably chime in. After all, those steel parts on those tunes are mostly played by the same steel guitar heros that play on a lot of the more "classic"stuff.Some of the really great session players. And we ALL listen to the steel parts on those tunes even if most here wont admit to it! I myself prefer "Classic" country mixed with a little "Bakersfield" for good measure.But yes there ARE some good tunes comeing out once in a while,and even some of the ones that I personally dont care for have good steel parts! I guess at 48 yrs,old.I'm old enough to know better,but still to young to care!
Enjoyed your post.

By the way .....I play some of it as well!!! <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 22 August 2004 at 02:37 PM.]</p></FONT>

Chris,
Great post! You made me pause to think about this subject. Like you, I love some of Brooks and Dunn's early work. My favorite (on the Brand New Man album) is When it comes to love. It's pure, twangy country at its best! I really love their sound. I think many don't actually post their feelings because of the sometimes harsh responses. My new favorite is Rick Trevino. Since I'm fond of Traditional country, the Bakersfield sound and Country Blues, I affectionately dub the sound Baked Country Blues! <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_107v.gif' border=0></a>
Donna Dodd
Georgia Steel Guitar Association<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Donna Dodd on 22 August 2004 at 05:11 PM.]</p></FONT>

I`m very "narrow" when it comes to country music I like,so I better not say anything.

Db

Theres a LOT of good "stuff" out there.

I work with a band that actually chooses some of the songs that have nice steel parts in them.

Looking at a current songlist, I can see a bunch of them.

Like..

Broken Wing, Back in Baby's arms, Me Neither, Five O'clock somewhere, Let 'er Rip, Strawberry Eine, There's your Trouble, This Hearache's on Me, She'll Leave you with a Smile, One Night at a Time, Let's go to Vegas, Soldier's Song, Long Black Train, Where do you go on your way home, and a dozen George Straight covers, AJ tunes, and a few songs we all I guess "Love to Hate". Lisa Jane, Mustang Sally, Family Tradition, WOrking Man... yada yada...

This mixture has had me learning new songs for the last three months, putting them on the bandstand with a VERY GOOD band that's learning at least half of them at the same time. It's one of those where we can listen to say "What was I Thinking" and put it out there the first time in sellable form, Possibly on a Friday after the midnite filtering out, or maybe before they get there on a friday.

Either way, I have come resently from a couple bands, and one in particular where I had been the only one that knew the tags, intros, whether they were supposed to be PSG or not, and octaving my way through all the changes to 'help" those that had just been hired to replace people that were sick of the songlist, and all kinds of stuff like bad checks, no gigs etc...

One band I have played with for twelve years, and I won't do the songs I was tired of 5 years ago. Friends or not.

I practice nightly, buy new clothes, invest in new equipment either To get new and better jobs, OR because that stuff get me new and better jobs. I dunno.

There are PLENTY of GOOD songs out here with PLENTY of GREAT STEEL.

Unfortunately, I think you might get the wrong idea from some people that have traded in their psgs for computer keyboards.

Some of those that are living professional lives where people of lesser mental and manual dexterity commonly can be found making $100,000 a year doing such un-artistic pursuits as mechanical engineering, architecture, crane operation, or heavy construction heavy equipment operation, might understandably be a little "sour" at the state of the "profession that THEY chose".

It just means, if anything that they are not "Saints", and the ones I've met, I'm damn glad they continue to stick it out, and provide those of us that do "it" for regular extra money AND enjoyment, musical inspiration if nothing else.

The most sour and violently disdainful years of my life were those in the 80s where I did it "for a living".

"Man at Pearly Gates, to St Peter.. " Well sir, the last year of my life, I made $23,000 after expenses with no contributions to FICA, Unemployment, or SS, and no retirement plan.."St Peter replies, "Well, my son, what top name band did you play with?"

There are several other people I guess that spend more time typing than playing, and trying to turn web presence into careers they never had. Don't worry too much about them. Find stuff YOU like, and try as hard as you can to find a place to play it LIVE and try not to depend on it for a living. It's probably less hard on self esteem as making money at "dancing" or "painting", but it's pretty daunting to say the least.

It's all about YOU.

I like what I play, where I play, and who I play with, and I don't want to play it, live my life, or establish my live on too many other peoples' terms.

I think Bud Charleton, for one, Mr Emmons, and Mr Green have showed me the importance of Playing Music on YOUR OWN TERMS, as much as anything else they have shown me.

You can be happy as hell living on a farm, giving lessons, and making an album holding a chicken on the cover doing a duet with a flute and STILL be the BEST Steel Player on the planet.

I've played what I've played on my own terms for a quarter century, and I"m happy that I still have the ability to change, find new things, and not starve to death in the process.

I think Mr Paisley and his music has been the most inspiring lately. His career path was pretty amazing to say the least. His steel players on his albums are the best we could ask for.

It's out there. Long as you don't try to make "it" something it's not.

I've got three great songs to learn licks to this week after work, while I make 800$ hauling rock. Good venue to play them in and good band to play them with for the next dozen weekends.

It HAS been a real job to get it that way, though, and is a constant job to keep it that way.

On my Own Terms.

It IS worth it.

Is that the answer you wanted?



EJL <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Eric West on 22 August 2004 at 07:55 PM.]</p></FONT>

Chris, I hear a lot of steel, read new country, that I either play or would like to play.
In fact I routinely struggle to learn the hooks and licks that I hear done by Dugmore, Johnson, Turner, Franklin, and others, not to slight anyone.
Often as not, it's the reason I buy an album.
When a new Alan Jackson CD comes out, I know there'll be something by Lloyd or Paul on there that I'll want to attempt.
Same way with George Strait, Marty Stuart, Gary Allan, Patty Loveless, David Ball, Lee Ann Womack and a few others you probably wouldn't want to hear about.

I think Donny Hinson got it right, there's bound to be some intolerance of just about anything new from some people. They naturally figure that what they like to play must be better than everything else, otherwise why would they be playing it? A lot of people "lock in" on the music they heard during their adolescence, and stop learning forevermore. From what I read on this forum compared to some guitar forums, I think that on the average steel players might actually be more flexible than rock guitarists - there are many out there who feel that Kiss and Aerosmith were the peak of Western Civilization, for example. I remember jazz trumpeter Wynton Marsalis publicly attacking Miles Davis for playing "modern" music with electric instruments, at a time when Wynton was making his living recreating Miles's mid-60's sound. People are the strangest critters, for sure.

Aren't intolerant people hard to tolerate?

I'm currently playing with a band fronted by a young female singer that plays all modern top 40 country and enjoy it a lot.
However, as a steel player, I find I'm playing parts almost like a lead guitar ....very percussive chords, or subtle runs and scales, or overdrive slide guitar parts, but no standard country licks at all.
I can honestly say I don't play one single 3rd and 5th string AB pedal bend all night!
So, that being said, I can see how many steel players wouldn't like playing this type of music....but I do!

Actually, Terri Clark, Sara Evans, and Martina McBride, are my favorite Female vocalists, and Ronnie Dunn is a real favorite whether you call it country, pop, or whatever. But I dont listen to those artists to get my steel "fix". Jim

I do Chris!
Actually, all the above artist use steel.
Whose playing steel on Sara's "Suds In The Bucket"?

Theresa

<SMALL>Some of those that are living professional lives where people of lesser mental and manual dexterity commonly can be found making $100,000 a year doing such un-artistic pursuits as mechanical engineering, architecture, crane operation, or heavy construction heavy equipment operation, might understandably be a little "sour" at the state of the "profession that THEY chose".</SMALL>

Point well taken. Still, my dad was a superb saxophonist, clarinetist, and could sight read on piano with real expression. I got about 0.2% of his talent, and appreciate every iota of it. I remember him telling me that he chose the profession of mechanical engineering in aerospace (designing thrust chambers in rocket engines) because he fully realized he could not support a family (of 5) on a musician's income. Good call, though I also think the music world lost a real talent because my dad was just too dadgummed practical. He kept at the weekend gigs with his foursome, playing dixieland and jazz.

Gone now for over 2 decades, I wonder what he'd think of my playing PSG these days.

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<font size=1>Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?</font>

.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 09:27 PM.]</p></FONT>

Well maybe the ISGC will produce a few Charleton "Converts"..

I understand well enough for me, but maybe it's because I got to sit across from him and watch him try to teach me for a couple years...



EJL

Country? Not sure what you mean. When I was deep into playing bluegrass, I sort of stopped listening to it when it became overly complex and drifted from the roots. I still prefer Flatt and Scruggs and the Stanley Brothers to any new stuff IÕve heard. Same with ÒCountry.Ó I still listen to George Jones, Merle Haggard, and Buck Owens. Most of the modern stuff I donÕt hearÑespecially being in NZ and far away from where it happens.
But there is another issue:
What makes the ÒcountryÓ stuff interesting to me hinges around several factors: the heart-felt nature of the songs, the simple delivery, the melodic simplicity, and the sparseness of the accompaniment.
As a steel player, I like to hear steel. If the backup is too full, the steel disappears. The more ÒarrangedÓ it gets, the less chance of being able to hear steel. In a sense, this whole thing is up to the artists and the producers.
Aside from the time I spent playing with classic Òbar bandsÓ in New Jersey and PA, most of my work has been with ÒfolkÓ actsÑusually, the singer and a guitar, maybe another harmony singer with a guitar, a bass, and ME. Because I was the only lead instrument, I got to let the steel shine. One of the nicest things happened when I was playing with Rosalie Sorrells at the Bitter End in NYC. She was called back for an encore and she said, ÒWinnie and I are going to sing you another song.Ó And THATÕS exactly what I wasÑa second voice on the steel that was there to compliment her. And THATÕS what good steel playing should be. DoesnÕt matter what you call itÑcountry or whatever. The whole thing is Òhow much does the singer let the steel shine.Ó
If they do itÕs fun. If they donÕt, IÕm not interested in playing itÑwhatever you call it.


JW

I always liked the ET, George Jones, Merle etc., and have a hard time acclimating to some of the new styles. However I enjoy the psg in every style (well just about) when the artist is "good" and knows where it's "at". For example Randy Beavers does a tune on his CD, titled "Lean on It" that I have found about four of the chords to that tune. No matter how many times I listen to it I'm mystified as to how he does it; as another heavyweight said, "there's so much more to the E9 tuning". Hey Randy, how about writing some of this down?

Theresa, that was Gary Morse playing steel and dobro on Sara Evans' "Restless" CD.

I don't play any country music.

I agree with Demir.. If I open my "mouth"here as to what real country music is I'll get hammered by those here who like the pop music artists mentioned. There are a few current artists playing an updated and well crafted form of traditional country music,[Alan Jackson and Paisley to name two]but for the most part "country" music has degenerated into a commercial form of very bland and soulless pop that is listened to by folks who wouldn't know a real country tune if it slapped them in the face. Hank Junior has a pretty cool country tune out called "Why can't we all just get a long neck" and it gets no radio play at all... at least around here. If it were done by Shania or some other contemporary "country music artist" and were all glossed up and overproduced like most of todays "country",it would be played 4 times an hour 24 hours a day. Sorry for the rant,but I have just about abandoned country and gone almost totally back to my rock and roll roots. Buck Owens where are you????? bob

Damir.. sorry for the mis spell!... I was furious over the loss of real country music and screwed up ..... bob

<SMALL>If it were done by Shania or some other contemporary "country music artist" and were all glossed up and overproduced like most of todays "country",it would be played 4 times an hour 24 hours a day.</SMALL>

I'm not denying this. There's a lot of music of very poor taste on the radio these days, in all genres, but what's on the radio does not represent all of what's out there, and there are some real gems among the manure. I thank my lucky stars that I don't give up hope like a lot of people here have already done, and that I continue to search for them.

Just as some say God finds those who try to find Him, I think good music finds those who try to find it. Thank God for the true musicians out there who continue to make good music with a true spirit, and thank God there are still some others trying to find it.

I appreciate reading everyone's comments on here. Thanks for your contributions (very civil ones, at that) to the thread.

And, hey, Donna, I haven't forgotten about the GaSGA webpage. I've been doing a bit of work and I hope to be able to show you guys by midweek next week. I'll be really excited if I can pull this off.


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Don't complain about it, do something about it. =-D

Satisfied member of the Georgia Steel Guitar Association

I kindda like the song,don't think hank done it that way!!also like Loyd Green said on tape with Tommy White,new stuff just kindda
falls apart.Yes the man said it,and thats good enough for me!!!!!FARRIS