The Steel Guitar Forum

I was blown away by RR live, but this is the second time I've seen him on TV, and both times I was underwhelmed. I can understand why someone who has only seen one of these shows would not care for him. His steel playing is just not coming through on these shows. I could hardly hear him. I use my TV as a monitor plugged into a good stereo system with good speakers, so it was not my sound, it was Leno's. They just are not capturing the steel well on these shows. When I could hear RR, he sounded off - I wonder if he could hear himself. Believe me, this is not what RR is about. On another thread on him, read about how he rocked 17,000 people at the Hollywood Bowl. He is just a dynamite player and entertainer live. But I wonder how long the excitement will keep up if he can't put himself across on TV and doesn't come up with a catchy hit song. Right now his jam band circuit seems pretty big. But that is a fickle audience.

I was waiting to see how long it would take until someone posted about his show last night. I agree with your assesment of his playing 100% and he was awesome but the sound definately was not there as it has been on other shows I've heard him on. I've often times heard people complain about that whinny twangy sound on country music. Most of it I enjoy but sometimes the steel sounds like its almost made to give someone the blues. RR is ROCKING the house with a guitar that we all love and I personally don't see how thats a bad thing. That man is a natural showman and on his cd's you can hear some subtle standard country licks in there if you listen real close. I also am of the opinion that it'll be a hoot watching him grow and mature as a musician.

Rick Garrett

Boy! The terms, "blown away" and "awesome" have taken on new meanings. Leno has sunk to a new low, booking this "act".

What a bunch of garbage! The steel guitar gliss has been turned into noise.

After hearing so much about RR___what a gross disappointment.

Leno has Nicole Richie on...but he sinks to a new low because RR is the musical guest??? Are you REALLY SERIOUS?

Remember.....just because you don't like the style of music someone plays, don't be so quick to say that they are in fact talentless.

I'm really not a huge Hendrix fan or Santana fan....I really don't care much for the music done by either of them. But I wouldn't say Hendix is "just makin' noise, playing with his teeth and all....HOW THE %^^&%%%& ^^*^&^*# ^&*^*^*^ CAN YOU PEOPLE LISTEN TO THIS ^&*^&*^*??!!??? YAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!"

No, I would note that I can see he has tremendous talent, used in a specific genre that I may not completely follow or like. Because that would be the truth.

Although in RR's case, I dig the genre....it's for the most part R&R...and how else would you play steel in R&R WITHOUT making the band sound like a country-rock band?

There are a LOT...A LOT!!!!...of people that feel that once a steel is played in a song, it automatically is a "country" song....whether it be a classical piece or jazz piece, the fact that is is being played with a pedal steel renders it "country" to some.

RR is making SURE that no one mistakes him for "country", and is undoubtedly luring in new players. If I were some of you, I'd be embarassed for posting some of the comments that you do, especially when some of these new guys and gals decide to learn about the pedal steel, come to this forum and see some of the ignorant statements that get made about RR on a daily basis.



Joe

I agree with Joe Alterio. RR is playing the instrument that we love in a different way. It may not be country, but it is getting exposure, that hasn't been seen in a while. I may not like all of his music, but I like his style. I have been playing for only about six years, but don't make your comments to hastily, see what the man has to offer on the steel guitar. You may be surprised to see what else he can play!!

Like I said in my above post, RR ROCKS and further, its on a pedal steel guitar! How cool is that? Folks sure shouldn't be so narrow minded about that. Its promoting the guitar we all love. Personally speaking, Im afraid that if I had such a narrow minded view of things like RR and his music that it would inhibit my ability to have a wider view in my own music. I'm a new steel picker and I try my best to stretch my own capability as a musician every time I pick up any kind of a guitar. I still say let the man play his music. Its great!

Rick Garrett

After staying up past my bedtime to see RR i came away highly disappointed to say the least.
I saw a lot of bar slides and lots of single sting notes but if this is where pedal is headed then my Fessenden is up for sale

Jimmie

Jimmie,I'm looking for another Fessenden, so I can put the sacred steel tuning on it...

Jerry Byrd played LaGolendrina" and "La Cumparsita" on his HIFI Guitar Ablum. There was NOT one single country note, nor 4/4 shuffle note in either song. Yet it was steel guitar at its very finest.

Buddy Emmons recorded, then played "Canon in D" by palcabel at the ISGC in Stlouis one year. There was not one single country note, nor 4/4 shuffle note in the entire composition. Yet it is one of Buddy's shinning achievements.

He also recorded and then played live at the ISGC, his own "Witches Brew". There was not one single country note, nor 4/4 shuffle in the entire composition. Yet it will serve as one of the all time most awesome and cleverly devised musical endeavors of ANY musical genre' IMO.

And who could EVER forget his unbelievable use of the ebow on "Once Upon a Time in the West" on the stage of the '77 ISGC. And if ya can find a single country note in that incredibly beautiful steel guitar "lick", please point it out to me.

Curley Chalker, Maurice Anderson, Paul Franklin, Doug Jernigan, Hal Rugg, Lloyd Green, Wally Murphy, Tom Brumley, Speedy West, Juaquin Murphy, Sarah Jory, Joan Cox, and countless other steel players have recorded and played songs on the steel guitar that had not one country note in them, nor one 4/4 shuffle note in them.

Yet, in every case they left MOST of us steel lovers with memories unprecedented at their inate "non-country" talents on the steel guitar.

RR plays a steel guitar like I do not care to hear it played. I Loved all of the countless NON country non 4/4 shuffle songs the above players and countless others have played, and are playing. I do not like the way RR plays. I imagine I would NOT care for anything he would ever play, although I do not know this for sure.

Hear me bretheren, those of us that do not care for his playing, have a right NOT to care for it because of his playing style as well as anyone has a right to like it for his playing style.

My personal opinion also is, I think it is "garbage". And sets the steel guitar back, rather than forward, as I enjoy it played by 1000's of other steel guitar players. I feel the exact same way about Buddy Cage's playing style. Yet I could listen all day and all night to Rusty Young or Sneaky Pete and I dearly loved Jerry Garcia's classic (that my memory will not recall the title of, sadly).

And again and again and again, "IF the only way the steel guitar can get its rightful acclaim, is by the way RR plays it, then may it NEVER get its rightful acclaim!"

Rather, I shall dream for the day when the steel guitar takes its rightful place on the concert stage the way CC, BE, DJ, PF, LG, TB, HR, RY, SP or countless others play our beloved instrument. If somehow it makes it to the concert stage like RR plays it, so be it.

But this person (and I rather imagine countless other steel players) will not walk across the street to listen to, or see it. I use as a precedent the night that many simply got up and walked out on Buddy Cage's spectacle on the stage of the ISGC.

carl

Here is an e-mail answer that I received on the article about RR: It came from the writer, NOT me.

I’d like to thank you all for writing. Some of you were respectful, polite and informative, others less so. But I feel compelled to respond, not as an apologist, but to illustrate a few things that I think may enlighten you as to the reasoning behind my review.

First of all, my digression into hyperbole as far as the “greatest” was a journalistic excess on my part—not because I’m uneducated, but because I hear in Randolph’s playing the hallmarks of someone who, as time goes by, may turn into a true innovator. I was enthralled by his performance and had never heard so many traditions combined into one cohesive whole. There is history within his strings that resonates beyond genre, race and classification.

Secondly, the article was written for general readership. I think that a positive review written for people who may not have head of RR is great for the entire pedal steel community in that it might encourage people to seek out more music associated with this instrument. Then they can decide for themselves who the “greatest” is, whether it really matters or not. The article was not written for the steel guitar community, but for those who might seek new and interesting music.

Thirdly, I will never please everyone. Several of you have sent me names of musicians who have made their mark on the instrument. Some of them I’ve heard of, some of them not. I will check out a few, but my time is limited. What I will do, however, is publish the names of those folks some of you have mentioned in the August 15th issue of the magazine. Just because I’m not a steel guitar expert does not prevent me from commenting on contemporary music.

Fourthly, to those who question my credibility to comment on steel guitar playing, I say nonsense. I have a broad knowledge of all types of music and will write my opinions as I see fit.

One reader opined that there is a bias against white male pedal steel players and that the elevation of RR to such stature is racially motivated. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. RR has made for himself a nice career, not because of his race, but because of his extraordinary ability.

I’m sure you’re a swell bunch of folks, but any way you look at it, a positive review of such a great player’s performance is good PR for your community. Whether you agree with my statement or not, you’ll be the ones who will benefit not only from a surge of interest, but from a rigorous debate among yourselves about the nature of the instrument you so dearly love. That can only be a good thing.

Thank again for writing, even the rude ones. Think about it. Until the publication date, that’s all I have to say about the matter.

--Ken Kase
Editor
www.nighttimes.com / Night Times, LLC

P.S.--A moment of thanks for the freedoms the First Amendment affords us—both for me to write what I please in a public forum and for you to disagree.


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Gary Watkins on 04 August 2004 at 11:14 AM.]</p></FONT>

My final comment on this matter....

Any of you who wish to continue to bash RR....obviously, it's your right to do so. But let's keep in mind what has made this steel guitar community so great....the sense of comeraderie that exists. If RR was a frequent poster on this Forum, would you still be writing such negative comments? How do you know he isn't reading these comments anyhow?

Just imagine him coming to these boards, wishing to post in the same spirit as Buddy or Jay Dee or the other pros and offer some of his advice, tips, etc. to those who might be interested....only to find such mean things being said. And let's be honest...there has been NO OTHER individual to have ever had this kind of negativity follow him on this Forum. I think it's sad to think that he, and his fans, may come here with good intentions and have an immediate impression of this group as a bunch of jerks.

One last thing....it's one thing to say you either like or dislike his music, or like/dislike his playing. But there is a line being crossed in many posts that seem to indicate another agenda.

Joe

My final comments also.

Who "bashed" RR? I simply do not care for his playing. Is that "bashing"? I also feel RR's playing style is garbage, respect to the incredible number of players' styles I do love to hear. Is that bashing?

It occurs to me that if the answer is yes, that your comments are then "bashing" all of us who express our opposite opinions about his playing.

I will call attention to the fact, that I have on this forum stated, "In my opinion, Pete Drake was not a good steel guitar player. He was an incredible 'lick' player that made a fortune playing licks. And he was indeed one of the most successful giants in the anals of country music!"

I have not changed that opinion and no amount of "bashing" will ever get me to change that opinion. Incidently I am not alone in that opinion. Be suprised what many of the greats said in private "bashings" concerning Pete's playing accumen.

If that is "bashing", I stand guilty.

As the author of the article said,

<SMALL>"P.S.--A moment of thanks for the freedoms the First Amendment affords us—both for me to write what I please in a public forum and for you to disagree."</SMALL>

,

I agree totally.

I disagree totally and will "bash" that author for using the euphamism "greatest" to describe RR. So let the world hear me "bash" him when I say categorically, RR is far, far from the greatest.

Further, it was a direct slap in the face of all the truly "greats" since the steel guitar was invented; to even hint at the use of the word; regardless of the reason(s) given.

I also disagree totally with the author (and will "bash"), for him not opening up his eyes to "truth" in those* who project the "reverse racial bias" that exists and permeates every facet of this nation today.

Now, if my post was "bashing" RR, or the author, then so be it. I will wait 'til my Savior tells me it is bashing however, before I will accept it as "bashing", and if he should do so, I will sincerely and respectfully cease doing it,

carl

*note: I have not written to the author. But had I, I would not have failed to categorically "bash" against the horrendous reverse racial bias that exists in America today.

I would have further stated. "In my opinion, IF RR had been white, he would NOT have been on the Jay Leno show (in that capacity), and YOU would not have called him the greatest!"

Let the chips fall where they may.

I saw Robert Randolph’s performance on Leno last night and all I can say is, this is obviously the Devil’s music and we must do everything in our power to prevent this cancer from spreading within the Steel Guitar community. We cannot allow the youth of today to be corrupted by Robert Randolph the way the youth of the past were corrupted by the likes of Elvis Presley…

But seriously:

All I saw was an artist who has taken an existing medium and reinterpreted it to express his own artistic vision. Isn’t that what artists do? If YOU want to play the instrument differently, do so. (Not everyone who plays a six string guitar plays it the same way either!) If you don’t like his music, don’t listen to it. I’m sure Robert Randolph could care less…

As far as your OPINIONS about Robert Randolph, The Dixie Chicks, the government, etc., well, you know what they say about opinions, everyone has one. Keep ‘em coming. You guys crack me up. It warms my heart to see that intolerance is not dead in this country...

------------------

HAHAHA! Hey man that really cracked me up. Great post and now I gotta go get something to wipe down my monitor with.

Too funny! Thanks to bob for the medium we all enjoy for banter about topics so great as RR.


Rick Garrett
P.S. You WISH you could play like RR, and so do I.

Joe Wright.

David, I was going to post exactly the same thing--why is it that his tone is so godawful and his guitar so difficult to hear whenever he's on a talk show? Leno has a pretty big audience, and you'd think that he'd take the time at rehearsal to make sure that his guitar is actually audible. His singing voice was off also.

I agree that part of the problem is that he needs better songs. Perhaps he'd consider doing a cover the next time he's on one of these shows. "Little Wing" would be a good choice, and I know he knows how to play "Voodoo Chile." Perhaps a Stevie Wonder cover, since I know he's a fan. I think the audience would be truly impressed if he pulled off one of those songs, and he wouldn't lose any points for not playing his own material. He'd probably gain points by showing everybody that he can play some of the most classic and beloved songs on his "weird" guitar.

-Travis

P.S. Doesn't it seem kind of juvenile and unnecessary to send rude e-mails to the guy who wrote whatever this article it is you're talking about? I mean, c'mon...

P.P.S. Also, Carl, I love you but this "reverse-racism" idea of yours needs serious rethinking. If the amount of "reverse-racism" in America is 1, then the amount of plain ol' regular racism is somewhere around 1000. I do not like to bring politics onto this forum, but I cannot let something like that slide. If you wish to prolong this discussion, I'll gladly continue it in private e-mail. Again--not an attack on your character in any way. It's hard to convey that fact through this medium, but I insist that that be understood.

i like Gary got the same reply from Ken Kase as well as this from him for starters:

<SMALL> I’ve been getting a lot of hate mail over that article and it was a pleasure to read an intelligent, polite e-mail that treated me and my views with respect. Some of the e-mails I have received have been frightening—bordering on threats—so I’m glad to hear from you.</SMALL>

i would like to publicly denounce those of us (of you) who sent Ken Kase any kind of Hate Mail and thus giving the Steel Community that we are a bad reputation.
Shame on you guys !!!

i consider that no matter our differences, we should be capable of maintaining a certain dignity and respect in our "propos"
i'm proud to be part of this Steel Family and it hurts when i see some of my cousins and brothers gettin' ugly and givin' the rest of the Family the task of havin' to apologize on their behalf (which i did to Ken K)

just for the record: i DON'T get ill or uptight when i hear or see Robert Randolph's name and Musik appear on this Forum !
i know Robert's workin' his A$$ off and he deserves every bit of Publicity, Glory, Success and Fame for his talents.
that does'nt make him "the greatest pedal steel player in the world" and i'm sure he's humble enough to know that.

ps: i wonder what the folks over on Robert's forum would think of us if they saw this thread and the one that's locked up ?









<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 04 August 2004 at 01:34 PM.]</p></FONT>

Since Buddy Cage and Jerry Garcia were brought up, here's a link to a bunch of New Riders CD's that have their steel playing on them.
The sound bites are full length songs. http://www.nrpsmusic.com/music/index.html

The comment that was made about if this is where steel guitar is headed my fesseden is up for sale! I still think you people do not give this man a chance to show in the future what he may be able to play. music has changed over time, and country music is much different than it was 30 years ago, any music is much different than 30 years ago. I am willing to purchase one of his CDs to listen to the whole album then make a comment. I suggest that several of us make a purchase of RR latest CD, and then make a comment or rate his music over the forum. I think this only fair, considering the bashing most of you are doing. Don't worry about the racial thing, the string guages that uses, or the amp & tone he gets from his instrument. Just be willing to listen and judge for yourself, and make a fair assumption of music to forum.
P>S> If you all had Emmons & ShoBuds and turned them in because you don't like his music, I'm sure this forum wouldn't exist, and 95% of steel guitars wouldn't be played!!!

Devil's music? Cancer? Garbage? If only you could hear me play steel.

<SMALL>If the amount of "reverse-racism" in America is 1, then the amount of plain ol' regular racism is somewhere around 1000. I do not like to bring politics onto this forum, but I cannot let something like that slide</SMALL>

<SMALL>I insist that that be understood</SMALL>

Travis, YOU just brought politics into the Forum, and like you, I can't let your statement stand. First of all, the issue is far more complex than you are describing, and like you, I "insist that it is understood" that it is preposterous to claim some ridiculous meaningless ratio of 1000 to 1 (or any ratio one way or another) in describing racism vs reverse racism (i.e. racial favoritism). And FWIW, any intellectual debate would require some sort of QUALITATIVE, and not just quantitative, analysis.


------------------
Jeff's Jazz
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 04 August 2004 at 03:33 PM.]</p></FONT>

All Fessenden guitars do not sound like RR's
I rest my case


Jimmie

Hmmm. I guess it's only a matter of time Before RR is on the GOO. How do y'all feel about that? They had KidROCK on there, didn't they?

***

I think I can read between the lines of what Carl is saying, in that he just wishes he could get equal time for some of <u>his</u> heroes of the steel guitar on some big TV show. Let's see...Buddy Emmons on Leno? Lloyd Green on Letterman? Jerry Byrd on American Bandstand?

Probably not.

But I'll wager we <u>will</i> probably see RR on the GOO pretty soon.

Call it a hunch.

Here are the topics that have stirred up some real debate on this forum:

1. Robert Randolph
2. "Real "Country Music on the Grand Ole Opry
3. Better tone: Push Pull or All Pull
4. A Black Emmons PP has better tone than any another color
5. Just Intonation or Tempered Tuning, etc..
6. better set up JD or BE?
7. what's next....?


I find great humor in the various opinions about various topics on here. As for the RR topic... He is simply making his kind of music (with great success)on an instrument commonly associated with Country and Western Music.

Personally, it is interesting to see so many steel fans offended by someone using a musical instrument to express his creativity and express himself through music.

Not to stir up anyones personal feelings ...but of all of the "Steel players" we all love so much ...when was the last time that they had a solo spot on the Tonight Show or any other major venue. Heck, you don't ever see Tommy White get many(if any ) solo spots on the very show he supports....Wouldn't it be nice to hear a Tommy White original on the Tonight Show or even the Grand old Opry.

That I would love to see... It is deserved and way overdue. But until then, why knock someone elses success with a musical instrument?

------------------
Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8p & 9k w/ BL-705s; Webb 6-14E Amplfier