The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm a beginning pedal steeler, but a long time guitar player. I always hated fingerpicks whenever I tried to use them on guitar. I've found that I still hate them when trying to use them on the PSG.
I think a player should do what he finds most comfortable, but I am wondering how many others use their fingers...it seems harder to block without fingerpicks. Any thoughts?

You can't get the classic pedal steel tone without metal fingerpicks. Actually, some say that you can't get the tone without Nationals!

I find it harder to keep an even volume without picks. I can be going along just fine, then suddenly my nail catches a string wrong and a note pops out twice as loud as the rest.

Here's one I did barefingered: http://soundhost.net/b0b/radio/Courtship.b0b.mp3

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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax</font>

I've been playing, without picks, for about a year. So far I have no regrets. I actually feel like it would be easier for me to get used to picks now that I know my way around a bit. I have been enjoying using a thumbpick lately. Makes harmonics much easier.

Hey Bob, that's great, nice touch.

I agree with everybody here. I can't get a "classic" steel sound without fingerpicks, but I feel lost without my sense of touch in my fingertips after 40 years as a guitarist.

In the beginning, I learned with a thumb pick only, then found I could use the finger picks if I wanted that sound. More often than not I don't use them, but will if I want that tone difference.

This sounds like a whole lot of no help at all, doesn't it?

I agree with what's been said above, it's harder to get the same tone out of a pedal steel if you don't use finger picks. When I play a guitar, I mix things up depending on the music I'm playing...sometimes I'll play without picks at all, sometimes I'll just use a thumbpick and sometimes I'll use all three. I've never really been able to flatpick well.

Try to love the fingerpicks, it's part of the sound. It takes time to "break in" a new set of fingerpicks. They never fit out of the package. I may be an odd duck, but I prefer the feel and the tone of brass fingerpicks over nickel-silver. And they are easier to bend (shape 'em with needlenose pliers) until they fit my fingers. It may take several fitting and re-fitting sessions until you're satisified, but don't give up. Specifically, these are Dunlop 0.025" brass picks. I keep a good-fitting pair along with a steel bar and thumbpick in a hard eyeglass case right next to my steel. And other sets my Dobro case and other strategic locations.

I'm exactly where you're at, Andrew. I've been playing non-pedal for only a very short while, and was initially wondering about whether or not to use fingerpicks, because fingerpicks seemed so foreign to me, I didn't like them, and I had a hard time getting them to fit to my stubby fingers. (And, having played electric bass for years now-- fingerstyle-- I seem to have an inbred aversion to picks of any sort!)

Anyhow, I got some advice on the issue from a couple of people who know, and they advised to just stick with the picks, that I'd get a more consistent tone with them, and that I'd get proper volume with fingerpicks, which will be essential when I take my Fender Dual Pro out of the woodshed-- whenever that may be-- and start playing with other folks. And you know what? Despite my initial aversion to fingerpicks, I'm getting quite used to them, and they are feeling more and more natural to my fingers. Like D. Schubert noted above, the big thing (for me, at least) was that it took a while to get the picks tweaked just right so that they felt OK on my fingers-- so that they were snug, but not overly so.

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<B><font size=1>1952 Fender Dual 8 Professional
Peavey Delta Blues</font></B><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by John Pelz on 26 April 2004 at 08:03 AM.]</p></FONT>

Bob, Picks or no picks - your tone sounds great on the clip that you provided in your post. Best regards. ..jeff bradshaw

I use all four possiblities.
standard 3 picks
4 picks sometimes on C6
thumb pick alone
and no picks especially on C6.

But I do practice with picks a lot, hating them much of the time, but doing it.

On a gig if I expect to play both mandolin and steel on a song, I will practice the steel part no picks.

Andrew--I went through the exact same thing.

I always hated the feel of fingerpicks. It's what kept me from pursuing banjo (plus my banjo has been in the shop for 3 years). Now I love my picks. I hate taking them off.

When I started playing lap steel, I thought "hey, I can be the guy who doesn't use picks!" But it's just not the way to go.

Once I forced myself through the initial frustrating and awkward phase, the picks made everything much easier: crosspicking, banjo-style rolls, consistent tone, tremolo picking, harmonics, etc.

I really like the ProPik split finger picks. They feel comfortable right out of the pack (for me, anyway).

ProPik also makes a fingerpick that may help you make the transition--a "hollow" tip that lets your fingers hit the strings.

The other thing I realized (from the Jerry Byrd video) is that I had been holding my picking hand incorrectly the whole time. Once you've got your hand positioned properly, and your fingers nicely spread, you'll gain a lot of control.

Andy,

I read something which Buddy Emmons posted on the forum a while back. He said that he played for a while with fingernails only and he couldn't tell any difference between that sound and the sound of fingerpicks.

I've been practicing that way now for about 2 years and it seems to be true. I used to play only with my fingertips and my tone was very muddy.

If you use your nails however, you can get a sound which is very close to metal fingerpicks but with a lot more comfort and ease of playing. I keep my nails relatively short but with maybe 1/16 of an inch (or maybe even a little less) of nail and this enables me to get a good plucking action without needing long nails. I do always use a thumb pick though.

I hope this helps. I was so glad to see that Buddy Emmons article because it really helped me to know that it could be done. You can probably find it on the forum somewhere.

I too have played guitar for close to 30 years and never used picks until I began my PSG journey a year ago...."hate" couldn't even describe my feelings...it was the biggest obstacle I faced. But I pressed onward and after a few months of cussin' while trying out everything I could get my hands on, the picks and I came to an understanding. Now I try to take my picks off and seem to stumble all over the place. Its an individual thang, of course. I finally settled on the slightly pointed Pro Pik Sharpies for fingers and use the Slick Pick for my thumb (which I truly like)!!! Auset

MY SUPERCOOL SECRET: Get two sets of fingerpicks going at the same time. Get one set bent comfortably enough to practice with, and fiddle with bending the other set when you're watching TV, listening to music etc. When the second pair feels better than the first pair, start playing those and fiddle with the first pair some more. If you're trying to practice AND bend your picks right at the same time, you'll accomplish neither very well.

For Country, I use picks. For jazz, I take 'em off.

Here are those half-breed fingerpicks; like having a little metal fingernail:
http://www.guptillmusic.com/propik/fingertone.html

Never tried 'em, but they might help you adjust. You might even get cleaner pick blocking with your finger exposed like that.

Picks will assist when on stage, you want to cut thru the muddle for, perhaps, intro note(s) to the next chord. I give a lot of leading notes and chords and w/o picks, I'd be down in the noise too far.

I read that same article on this forum about Buddy Emmons about not using fingerpicks.
I guess i'll try a little harder and get some hollow ones, and see if I take a liking to the fingerpicks...but I seem to have little patience for them so far.

PS That clip is sweet, b0b!

Fingerpicks were invented by the same guy that invented the ZB rod system,palm blocking,and put the G# 3rd instead of 1st where it belongs! Getting used to them is the hardest thing for me,(a 40 year flat and hybrid pickin guitar player),to adjust to.I keep trying and it is getting better, so don't give up. Getting them bent into a usable shape took me 3 sets of picks and a week of working them.Dontcha hate it when they get stuck in the strings! good luck JimP

I had trouble with finger picks for the first years of my steel playing but now I can't play without them. I tried playing with just my fingers and it just doesn't work, the feel and the attack are not right for me. The funny thing is I play guitar with either a flatpick and two bare fingers or a thumpick and two bare fingers and that's the only way it works for me. I tried fingerpicks on guitar and couldn't get used to them.

Either way, You either play or------>
You can be an accomplished musician with or without picks, the choice is yours. In the head is where it really is, what's stuck on your fingers or not stuck on your fingers isn't the thing that will decide your career. Many great players have proven this and will continue to prove this. Ask Buddy Emmons, Randy Beavers, or even a slug like myself to play with no picks, you won't hear much of a difference, if any at all. I refuse to be a slave to these things. I'll use them if the mood is right, but I have done many sessions , my own and for others, with out picks. Tone? Look out, you can have great tone either way.(Chet didn't use them). With practice and the correct equipment any tone can be yours, and speed also. These are facts friends!
I have heard guys fight and argue about the brand of finger picks,the weight size and thickness,I try to hide my laughter, what difference does the brand of finger picks make if they aren't even necessary in the first place? Hey, play the guitar,Don't knock it if you haven't given it a good tryout.

This editorial is from the desk of :
Bobbe "sorefingers" Seymour<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 April 2004 at 07:53 PM.]</p></FONT>

(I was just kidding about hideing my laughter, I never hide it!)

Here the archived reply by Buddy on the subject.


Buddy Emmons
Member
Posts: 1126
From: Hermitage, TN USA
Registered: AUG 98
posted 09 March 2000 12:31 PM
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Bob,
My favorite finger pick is the old National with the nickel silver (I think) alloy. The picks I'm referring to have a nice rounded dish shape in the blade. Several years ago Mike Cass ran across several dozen pair of old Nationals, so I bought all of them and gave him half.
The closest shape to the old Nationals that I've seen today are the Kaiser or George L finger picks. The one thing I don't like is that the gauge is a shade too light for the way I pick. Otherwise they are very close. If I could get a set of George Ls chromed, it might beef them up to the right thickness for me.

When I take my fingerpick off and hold it next to my finger and view it from the side, the angle or curl of the blade is pretty much that of the bottom of my finger. When I put them on, the shaft sticks around 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch above the nail. Holding my hand with my palm facing me, the wear pattern on the finger picks is at the upper left tip of each blade.

My favorite thumb pick is a Dunlop clone, which won't help you a bit. I had one at the last NAMM show in Nashville and gave it to Mona Lewis to take to Dunlop's booth and see if he had any more. She came back and said he didn't appreciate seeing it because it was a phony. So when I run out of those, the next best thing for me will be a National medium. The National mediums vary so much, I can't even recommend one. All I can say is the one I like is about the size of the blue thumb pick that was popular, only it doesn't slide around on my thumb when I pick hard. From the thumbnail angle, the shaft sticks out approximately 3/8 of an inch. George L also offers a good thumbpick although a teeny bit on the light side.

I would love to drop the fingerpicks altogether because I have played as long as six months without them and really liked it. I played on some Step One recordings, played a few concerts, and even the convention in St. Louis one year without finger picks. The only thing that got me back into picks was when I tore a nail before going on stage one night and had to put a pick on my finger to protect it. There's something about the feel of the guitar that's not there when you have a piece of metal between the fingers and the strings.




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Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

IMHO, it's all about habits and comfort. If you like the tone and attack of fingerpicks, hang in there with them. Like learning anything, it may seem awkward or uncomfortable at first, but if you keep after it, it will feel 'normal'.

sw

Andrew, you're a guitar player--do you use picks when you play guitar? I have some friends who won't let picks even *touch* their guitars. Myself, I've been playing guitar with (and without) a flatpick for so long that it no longer feels there's anything between me and the strings.

When I stared on steel, I would stumble with fingerpicks until they drove me crazy, then take them off and play bare until I was happy again.

But now, there's something extremely satisfying about sliding on those picks and sitting down behind the steel--it's like suiting up and going to work (with more fun, less pay). Plus girls seem to dig the sight of all that shiny metal.

Either way, you'll know you're playing incorrectly when there isn't a smile on your face.

Like Scotty said, if you like the pick sound, stick with 'em. If not...