Hit Record Why Did It Work ?????

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 10 Jan 2004 9:53 am

Some Records made a hit without Steel, Would steel have made it better.

Some steel intros and turn arounds made it better.

Some steel guitar players made the Singer better.

No One Mends A Broken Heart Like You.
Was a hit without much backup. Jeff Newmans Steel with her made it better.

Eddie Arnold (in my opinion would not have been my hero without ROY WIGGINS)

Loyd Green made the Indian song for Charlie Pride, with his fills.

1. Best Intro and fills that made a record a hit.

2. The steel player that made the Singer.

3. What record would have been better with steel?

my vote
1. Ray price City Lights (who did the steel?)Ray sang this song like he had lived it.

2. Little Roy wiggins Made Eddie Arnold my hero. (Till I found out how he treated Roy)
Now I know it was Roy who is my hero.

3. No One Mends A Broken Heart Like You

Mom would send me out on the porch to practice, I would listen to Roy wiggins and try harder. Thanks to a well remembered friend I never met in person.

ernie

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 10 Jan 2004 9:58 am

Ernest, the only reason I can come up with as to why it worked.... is because the listeners are NOT steel guitar players....they listen to the words of the song. When the steel (or any other instrument) is playing...they are talking!
www.genejones.com

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 10 Jan 2004 10:58 am

Right-on Gene. Remember how the dj's used to play a song and when it came to the great steel solo by WHOMEVER, the dj would fade out the sound and go into a commercial. Gadd!

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 10 Jan 2004 11:18 am

I am quite sure it was Jimmy Day on "City Lights." I heard that Ray made a little speech in the studio before they cut the tune, to get the band in the proper mood.

Roger

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 10 Jan 2004 12:00 pm

Mega dittos to everything that has been said. I have often said that one of my greatest thrills would be to be a very rich man where I could buy a radio station in most large cities, then have the distinct pleasure and honor of FIRING (on the spot) ANY DJ that EVER interrupted a steel intro, break or ending to ANY song.

Oh well

I too believe that Little Roy Wiggins helped MAKE Eddy Arnold. And I believe it was more than just a little bit also. It is my understanding that this type of talk infuriates Eddy; and in one instance he EVEN called Little Roy and told him such. But whatever, I still will always believe that LRW was a prime reason EA made it soo big.

On another note. Those so-called country recordings down thru the ages that did not use a steel IMO would have even been better (including sales) IF a steel had been used. I throw the following up as suggested tunes where no steel was used:

1. Many of Sonny James classic hits.

2. Alabama hits.

3. Many Statler Brothers hits that did not use a steel.

4. Make the world Go away by EA.

5. ALL Ray price recordings that did not use a steel.

6. Most PeeWee King recordings.

I know there are countless others, but I just can't recall their titles. I just remember the many times my blood boiled, because I knew in my heart it was deliberate. And my question always was,

"Why not do without the guitar, or bass, or drums or piano etc? Why did it ALWAYS have to be the steel that had to go?"

The day anybody can give me a legitimate and logical reason why it is "wrong" to use a steel in ANY recording; or better, why the steel would "hurt" the recording, I will recant my feelings.

carl

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 10 Jan 2004 12:10 pm

There is one example that always makes me think:

Billy Walker recorded "Charlie's Shoes" with beautiful steel playing and solo by Jerry Byrd. A few weeks later the same song was re-recorded without Steel and Billy doing the intro and break whistling - this is the version that became famous!

If I have to make my selection, I know which one is No. 1 for me!

Walter

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Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 10 Jan 2004 12:41 pm

In all my years of listening to country , I never heard the DJ say "here's a tune from........with a great steel intro." We may be a mystical group but in the eyes of a record producer.....just a side man.....sad but often too true.

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There is no such thing as too many steels!!

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 10 Jan 2004 3:35 pm

How about the old original version of Cheyenne by Bill Monroe and Bobby Hicks. They should have used a steel instead of the banjo, of course back then it might have been without pedals.

In my opinion, any song that didn't have a steel would have been improved by adding one. You guys are right on. Listeners listen to the words of a song, which in my opinion are in most cases arbitrary. Blah, blah, blah would be just as good in many songs, especially today's junk. If you want words, read poetry, music is no place for words, or even vocalists for that matter, with a few exceptions.

jd

BDBassett · Post by **BDBassett** » 10 Jan 2004 3:36 pm

Hey, I knew a couple of DJs who where good about crediting the steel player. I was a little hippy kid from the city when I heard DJ Jay Hamilton on Bellingham WA radio staion K--- ( I forgot) back timing into the news with Lloyd Green and making it a point to mention Sneaky Pete or Buddy Emmons. He even played cuts off the Charlie Pride Live at Panther Hall album. Jay also broke Pure Prarie League onto the airwaves long before 'Amie' (with no steel) was a hit. Jay was playing the dickens out of a PPL song called Tears with John Call all over it. It was in no small part because of Jay that I thought I too could learn that mystical instrument known as the Pedal Steel Guitar.

Over the years, he and I got to be pretty good friends along with another jock named Lee Rogers who introduced me to my second ex wife...a disk jockette at KMPS in Seattle. She had a thing for steel too I guess.

Getting back to the 'making the song or singer' topic. Remember that there was a lot of distinction between singers and their signature sound back then. Sure there were clues as to who was the producer but once an artist found a 'sound' they often stuck to it for several hits in a row. Merle, Buck, Tammy, George, Charlie, Waylon, Loretta and a host of hitmakers used easily identifiable formulas which included steel guitar. Others chose not to.
I learned how to shoehorn steel parts into songs where they never were before or how to play the guitar, fiddle or even organ/piano stuff on steel just so I had something to do. Whether it made the song any better? Well who can say. I will say this though. ALL of the HIT records that I made in MY career have steel guitar in them. Now, where were those hit records? I had them a minute ago, what did I do with them? Darn it...oh well, I'm sure you know which ones I mean.

BD

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 12 Jan 2004 6:26 pm

Carl one day we may just do that.
If the pol. can control the news why can"t we control country music????

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 12 Jan 2004 6:59 pm

Steel Guitar is like liver and onions, you love it or hate it. The making of a hit recording is team work. Steel adds that extra flavor to a hit. Joe Ps I like liver and onions.[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 12 January 2004 at 07:35 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 12 Jan 2004 7:30 pm

In all my years of listening to country , I never heard the DJ say "here's a tune from........with a great steel intro."

me neither, until I heard DJ Eddie Stubbs... a true fan of the music and the PLAYERS...

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 12 Jan 2004 9:37 pm

1. Best Intro and fills that made a record a hit.

BE Night Life

2. The steel player that made the Singer.

Hal Rugg Loretta Linn.

3. What record would have been better with steel?

That's a toughie. Probably any Johnny Cash. Billy Joel's stuff could have used one. "So it Goes" is a good example." In the middle of the Night" would have been helped too. ANY of his actually.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 13 Jan 2004 8:50 am

Eddy Arnold, Conway, Price, Pride and so on kept on having big hits and in many cases their biggest hits without steel. Buying hits are about the song, singers voice, lyrics, and dancing to the average record buyer. Buying records for a solo or intro is what musicians do....Paul

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 13 Jan 2004 9:16 am

I mostly buy records (cd's-cassettes)for the picking. I like to refer to them as instumentals with vocals. Paul, you and other steelers have more albums out than you thought.

Tony