The Steel Guitar Forum

How many good pickers know all the chords they play? Is it needful to know them?

Invaluable!

If you are composing paragraphs, do you think it's important to know words? Same thing.

You can grope around in the dark and accidentally find stuff, or else you can educate yourself on what notes comprise various types of chord and know where to look for the good stuff.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Larry is so right on! I know the name of the chords I use and the name of the notes in the chords, and where they are on the guitar. I think that is a very important thing to learn for any musician ....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

ANY knowledge regardless of what it concerns will always make a given debenture better.

But ALL the knowledge in the world can not make up for talent that is not inate.

The best of all is when the inborn gift is embelished with an ever and unending quest for knowledge.

May Our precious Lord continue to nurture those who were given the gift of music; and comfort those who don't.

carl

I know the names of the chords and the names of the notes in them if I stop to figure them out. While I'm playing, I usually don't think about such things. I think about the relationships of the notes to the chords, the relationships of the chords to the key, and timing.

I don't know what better players think about when they're playing.

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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
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A debenture? I paid cash for my steel guitar. >
Possibly the most important thing to know about a chord is where the third is, so you can make it major or minor. Also handy to know where the root and the 7th are.

One of them is a GeorgeL, not sure the names of the others.....

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www.tyack.com

SO much happens so fast like b0b says that it's usually in retrospect that I figure mine out.

It's imperitive that you can explain to a guitar player that "9-5" or "9+5" so time spent figuring it out is not wasted by any means.

It's kind of embarrassing when you "dunno" when you get working with guys that do and they ask you.

The note values are somewhat more difficult to know as they're not "laid out in front of you" like a keyboard. They should be withing the grasp of explanation too, but at first the mechanics of playing period will fill a couple years if not more.



EJL

Hey, Dan I use George'l !!!!!!!!

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I heard a story one time about a world known steel player going to a high class studio, maybe to record with some "pop" band. He was
ask if he knew music and the story goes that
his answer was "Not enough to hurt my picking". I have always wondered if this was
a true story. I have all ways appreciated
people with a lot of musical knowlege, but knowing how to apply the knowlege is another
story.

I think that chord knowledge is invaluable. The problem I see is identifying the chord that would apply to the music that is being played. The same chord in another song would be known by another name. The lanquage and application is what is the hardest to learn.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Knowing the name of the chords may be important, but it's crucial to understand scale tones and the intervals that make up the chords in order to play music on an instrument.

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The formal aspects of written music, i.e., notes, chords, etc, are just a means of "communication" of musical notation between or among musicians. It has no intrinsic value otherwise.

A musician who has no need or desire to learn or copy the music composed by others, has no need to learn the formalities.

The inate, or natural feeling of the elements of music, will enable a musician to submit the elements of his music to his audience irregardless of his formal training.

If the "feeling", or inate ability is not there, whatever the "feeling" is, formal music training is futile.

Flame away at this old country boy!
www.genejones.com

I dunno Gene.. that's a pretty harsh indictment.

Wish I had the sick'em to say something like that.

Hope you've got your asbestos undergarments on..

Here comes WWIV..



EJL

Gene,

I'm new to this list, so excuse my post on such a controversial issue, but I couldn't agree more. There are of course kinds of music where you need to understand written notation and theory -- classical music -- and for many of us its extremely valuable. BUT there have been many instrumentalists who have made brilliant music without the aid of notation and theory, and really didn't seem to need it. I don't think there is ever anything wrong with knowing theory, if you want to, but if you don't and you make great music and you like it, who cares.

Well, I guess that's true. If you're completely satisfied with your level of musicianship and plan to never interact with any other musicians other than those at your level of knowledge, you're golden. Enjoy.

That seems a bit of an overstatement. Lots of people learn music and communicate without talking theory or notation -- blues musicians for example.

Sometimes, a simmering pot must be stirred to release the delectable flavors and aromas of the mixture.....A little fire on a cold winter evening is not altogether a bad thing! A little seasoning added by many cooks is greater than the sum of it's parts or any single ingredient! ....

www.genejones.com

Francis...I heard that about Chester. When asked if he could read music his reply was...not enough to where it hurt his playing.

Then he went on to explain that if couldn't play what he heard in his head without thinking about reading music he never would be able to compose anything orginal. He also went on to say he could read music but if he had to pick one he would take playing by ear. Appears that Chet and Gene would agree on that.

Bob<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 07 December 2003 at 08:19 PM.]</p></FONT>

Chords are made from scales, scales are made from chords,
Two sides of the coin. And what coin is usesfull with only one side?

But also modal scales can be extrapolated
over chord sequences that don't neccesarily contain all the notes of any modal scale.

You can have all the scales in the world, and not really know where to put them.
You can have all the chords blocked out without knowing how to connect the dots so to speak.

I am more into C6 than E9 and I first learned as may chords as possible. Because then I knew where I would be looking to build scalar arpegios ; from and too.
After a few simple blues I went straight into several jazz standards chord progressions, knowing I would forget how to do the song in it's entirety, but would gain immediate understanding of how the system layed out.
A solid overview of how my steels copedent worked.

You can play totally by ear, and take a lot longer to do it.

Theory is not the end all, be all,
it is a way to MORE QUICKLY find your way though a song,
at what ever level you are playing at.
And it opens up more possibilities faster.

It is not neccasary for much standard steel music to studie ALL the possible theory,
but some study will make it apparent that you will progress from it.
Most country players rarely will need to know an augmented chord and scale, but it is good to know anyway.

As you find something you don't understand, study on it, and maybe the next thing afterwards, and you will have opened a window of technique for yourself.
It is not neccesary to learn more than a piece of theory at a time, it is much less daunting that way. Learn a piece and apply it. Rather than look at the giant ogre "Theory" and say oh man that's too much to grasp.

Theory is not a replacement for feel and a musical ear, or woodshedding technique,
but it is a roadmap for getting that musical ear faster.

Steel is an intrument that really benifits from a solid theory application. Up too and a little past the music you want to play on it. IMHO

The best players you listen to, know and love, all clearly have very strong theory,
on top of which they also have a fluid musical sense and great technique.

Gene you old Chef de Cuisine,
stir the pot as much as you want. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 December 2003 at 01:10 AM.]</p></FONT>

Knowing chords is indeed helpful. Knowing the relationship/differences between the different chords is even more helpful. Knowing where the individul notes in the chord you are playing is just as important. That will cut down a whole lot of unnecessesary bar movement when one realizes that the chord you are looking for actually is in the same position (one only needs to add a lever or pedal to get the desired chord)
The way things make sense to me is that there are only 4 different chords: Augmented,Major,minor and diminsihed and all other chords-voicins are extensions or variations w additional notes added to the 4 previous listed chords. My opinion that is. Feel free to disagree.

Knowing chords is also helpful if one tries to play other instruments as well. Musical ideas, chords and melodylines are easier to transfer from one instrument to the other if one has a understanding of the common language that links both instruments together.

Bengt Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12 ExtE9 & JCH D10

Good thoughts from all who have posted. I am guilty of pulling this more off-track than I intended....the last thing I intended to do was to demean music education or those teaching it.

.....going back to the original question, "Is it necessary for a steel player to know the chords they play?"......

.....what I should have said is...."of course it is, but IMHO the playing of the correct chords during a performance should be an automatic response, not a conscious effort to anticipate and mentally "name" each chord as it is played".....

Learning unfamiliar or original material is a different ballgame.....in those instances I probably "consult" my chord chart more often than anyone else to identify an obscure chord. But after I find it, I immediately stop thinking of it as a Bbm6 or whatever it was, and just play it.

(Those goshawful 7b's that have become de rigueur in today's music, still sneak up on me sometimes when I least expect them, so I usually make a mental sign post of those)
www.genejones.com <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 08 December 2003 at 04:42 AM.]</p></FONT>

What chord is prior to the Bbm6 and what chord comes after the Bbm6 would be important as to where that particular chord would be played. Easiest place if I just was to consider a Bbm6 on the E9 would be at 4th fret string 7 6 5 4 w A+B and E's lowered but the chord before and after might have the Bbm6 better off in another position.

Bengt Erlandsen<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 08 December 2003 at 04:43 AM.]</p></FONT>

Bengt, I'm sure that your method is more legitimate than mine, and I admire you for your ability to do it that way.

But, my mind isn't agile enough to do it that way. If I attempted to analyze the chord options and alternate positions while playing a song during a performance, I would probably "forget" what song I was playing and what key it was in!

www.genejones.com