What do YOU find most offensive?

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

How many of you find it, perhaps a little irritating, to hear some steel player mashing A/B pedals on E9th with all of the E9th country sounds, while attempting to play a Hawaiian song, or pop tune?
Why then doesn't the "twangy", high pitched, shrillness of some guy on a Fender/or lookalike, doin' chickin picken' all thro' a classic/traditional western swing tune annoy you; or, does it?
Some call it broadening the spectrum. Some call it original styling. What do you call it?

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I call it trying to cram a square peg into a round hole.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Ray,
You pretty much nailed it,western swing is for C6 or a Herb Remmington/Billy Bowman/Bob White style and tuning.

That been said,a conservative AB move on a loooong Hawaiian slide sounds ok(JMHO),just can't beat Mr Byrd,tho I would like to hear him on pedals one time.

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Bill Ford

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

It depends on what strings and what changes you make on E9th (or C6th) if you wish to play Hawaiian music. The main thing is to try an steer away from "moving" tone changes:

picking strings 4 and 5 and engaging the A pedal a real "no-no".

picking strings 5 and 6 and engaging A and B is ok.

The difference is; in the first example, you are sustaining one note while the other one is moving. This is classic Bud Isaacs style E9th and just does not work when playing true Hawaiian music.

The second example is pure Hawaiian and has been done with the bar since the guitar was created. Only in this case the pedals do it as the bar stays still. Jerry Byrd does it all the time. IE, both notes are moving so it is more "gliss" than "moving tone".

Now having said that, there are ocassions when one can use the moving tone; however you have to be careful how and when you do it.

Here are two examples:

lap steel

on C6 (E on top) Pick strings 1 and 3 and backward slant 1 fret; say frets 12 and 13. Now as the notes sustain reverse the slant to a forward slant at the same frets (13 and 12. Figure X

On a E9th PSG

pick strings 4 and 6 at the 13th fret with the E's lowered and the B pedal engaged. Now as the notes sustain, let off both the knee lever and the A pedal.

When done correctly there is no difference.

Here is one more.

On non pedal C6 (E on top)

pick strings 1, 2 and 4 at the 7th fret. And as the strings sustain, perform a split slant lowering ONLY the 5th string a half a tone. This is classic Jerry Bryd.

Or..

On C6th on a PSG,

pick strings 2, 3 and 5 at the 7th fret. And as the strings sustain engage Pedal 5.

In this case a "moving tone" has occured, but it sounds nothing like pedal guitar in the Bud Isaacs genre', so it works quite well on a PSG.

carl

Stephen Gregory · Posted 28 Oct 2003 8:06 pm

Someone telling us that only one or two guitars, usually the ones they have to sell, are the only ones with "that sound". And then telling us all how much more qualified they are then everyone else to make those claims. That's what.

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Hey Raymond Watch that stuff.

Why then doesn't the "twangy", high pitched, shrillness of some guy on a Fender/or lookalike, doin' chickin picken' all thro' a

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

What do you call it?
I cant say it on here, they will throw me off
this platform I stand on.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Hmm..

I know it's damn hard to play swing type stuff with a guitar player playing 7ths against your 6ths. I've fought endless battles over this. I win if they want me to play on those songs. A Thirteenth chord is pleasing. A 6 add 7th is not. On the C6 I've found that even the now standard C6add9 could be viewed as "pushing it".

I've played with a guy in town that does exactly what you mention, and it plain chapps my butt. I know what you mean, that's for sure.

(I refrained from the bastard child string in noting that the addition of the D note in the late 70s brought an end to the Standard C6 tuning, that everybody has actually been incorrectly referring to it as since they slipped that Pesky Little Low F in 50 years ago. I noticed you have one on your Emmons as well.)

(What, pray tell are those pedals on your Bigsby for?)

As well, I have to really watch playing 6th voicings in places that they don't belong.

Now. The {i]other[/i] side of the coin:

From ET on down, there are definately more places that 6th chords don't fit than where they do in Country Music. That's even cut off before the 60s were over. That was 40 years ago. Hank Thompson was one notable exception.

I've heard guys play 6ths where they don't belong about as often, and I won't be baited into saying or thinking that "offensive" is a good word for it. Probably just "out of the idiom". How many 6th chords are there in Buck Owens' songs? I counted three in his whole discography. Don't ask me what they were. Those "AB Pedal Stompers". Am I to conclude that you include Buddy Charleton, Mr Emmons, Jimmy Day, Tom Brumley, Pete Drake, Mr Mooney, in their ranks?

I find that people who go out and play music, no matter whether I particularly like it or not refreshing, as there are always more reasons not to.

Here's an interesting case in point. I'm probably going to do a Patsy Cline gig trading with Pete B, though it's not finalized, and I've been running through several of the tunes on the set list. There WAS no steel guitar on 90% of her stuff. I am guessing that the straight "6th stuff" will be appropriate on most of it. They won't know any different. Pete has a couple GREAT arrangements of her old "rockabilly tune" "Real Gone Guy" that I had run through before the "Lilly Situation".

I find violence, crime, taxes, hard economic times, and certain political views "offensive", Very seldom words or music.

SSM

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 28 October 2003 at 10:22 PM.]

Marco Schouten · From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Too high volume and distortion is what I don't like more than anything else. The last steel guitar meeting one player was playing so loud, I got a headache and had to skip the evening part.

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

"Offensive" my be too strong a word, but I am bothered by certain the use jazz chords and the overuse of pentatonic blues scale for guitar leads in songs where they don't belong.

(I once heard a guy play Honkytonk Woman with Jazz chords and he totally destroyed the character of the song.)

I am truly offended by the fact that many young people today think that music begins and ends with rock and roll, and consider everything else "the enemy."

I'm also offended by the attitude among some people that studying music and learning how to play your instrument is somehow "cheating."

But mostly I'm offended by the lack of musicality and the almost mandatory use of profanity in rap.

It may well be that there is a poet of Shakespearian stature working within the genre, but all I ever hear is "Mother F---er, F--- the ho, kill the pigs", etc. I think there are times and places where such language may be appropriate, but it offends me to constantly hear it blairing from somebody's car stereo every time I drive.

Terry Edwards · From: Florida... livin' on spongecake...

B@njo playing western swing tunes.

Steel guitar playing bluegrass tunes.

Probably just me....yeeccchhhh!!!!

Terry

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Terry Edwards
Fessy D-10; Nash 1000
Martin D-21; Flatiron F-5

Frank Estes · From: Huntsville, AL

A band that won't let me take most of the solos!

Joe Drivdahl · From: Montana, USA

How about a band that wants you to play it "exactly like it was on the record." Yeah ok, some songs have a signature lick and some don't so you can just improv through those. But what hurts is having a band mate expect you to duplicate Jimmy Page licks on your steel. Whew! Can I borrow your bow for a second, Mr. fiddle man?

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

True story: A drummer once told me: You don't sound a bit like John Hughey !!

I replied: And you don't sound a bit like Ray Price either !!

I tried from the beginning to make my steel seem appropriate to the song. I used Bob White's teachings and Bb tuning for Western Swing; Day and Emmons E9th styles for current country and C6th, Highest string an E when there was a doubt or if I got bored. I had a T-10 Marlen with those three tunings.

When I finally got around to doing Sleepwalk, I did it on the E9th neck of a D-12 Carter. I used both A & B down for the original sound of the song. The high effect of E9th worked perfectly for the chime run in. I also liked the standard vertical knee lever lowering the 5th string a half tone when doing the F to Fm change (with A pedal down). It never occured to me or ever bothered me, that I wasn't doing it like the original record. I played it so that it felt right to my ears.

Regards, Paul

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

Fiddle players who play CONTINUOSLY.

Jack Francis · From: Queen Creek, Arizona, USA

ME!

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I'm not offended by anyone trying to express themselves on a musical instrument. I hope I never close my mind by trying to apply my standards to someone else's creative efforts. I have the right not to LIKE it, but I would never be offended by someone trying to bare their soul by creating music. There were many who made similar criticisms of Bach, just because he was doing something unorthodox for the time.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

OK, here's my top ten list.

1.Singers who tag the song a million times.

2.Bass players who play cheesy, obvious walk ups all over the place.

3.Guitarists who play "steel" licks when there is a steel player sitting right next to him.

4.Fiddlers who won't stop fiddling.

5.Drummers who can't shuffle(a growing trend, sadly).

6.Record producers who want you to play "slide guitar licks" through a distortion pedal.

7.Condesending sound guys who think they own the place.

8.Club owners that charge the band for drinks.

9.Audience members who think you are the piano player.

10.The piano player. I don't know why. He just looks at me wierd sometimes.

Man, I hate that guy...

Ward Wilsey · From: Kirkwood, Missouri, USA

The guy in the audience who yells, "Play Freebird!!!!" at the top of his lungs every 5 minutes. Ward

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Hey Mryon! Either you're a newer player and unaware how extensive this "problem" has been for decades now, or, you haven't been payin' attention. It was usually the drummer or banjer player. Gadd! You also have to be cautious around Tambourine (sp?) players too!

[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 01 November 2003 at 09:25 AM.]

George McLellan · From: Duluth, MN USA

I find it is very distracting to try to play a solo in a Carl Smith (or anything for that matter) song when a mandolin is playing along with me. It drives me nuts!!!!!!!!!!

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

JamesMCross · From: Houston, Texas, USA

First off: ditto to Mike Perlowin's post. Most of these old time honky-tonks I've been playing in right down here in the heart of Texas play that "stuff" when the band takes a break. So, we'll do a 60 minute set of traditional country music and maybe get a few dancers on the shuffles and the slow stuff, then when we take our breaks, the DJ cranks up the rap music so loud you have to go outside to keep from going mad - but everybody in the club will dance to that stuff. Make's me wonder why they ever hire a country band at all.

I've tried playing in bands that cover the rap stuff... Man that's fun, trying to find places to put steel guitar fills in an Uncle Cracker tune... I'd almost rather sit at home and watch CMT...

Secondly, the thing that chaps me the most is band-leaders who hire their buddies to run the pa gear, or worse yet, the guitar player's girlfriend to run the pa gear. And, every one of them thinks the best way to fix a bad mix is to turn it up!

Alvin Blaine · From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA

Most offensive to me:
1)The "Frontman singerboy" that yells over the microphone during intros , turnarounds, and solos.(When he's singing I don't get on the mic and start yelling to the audience what tonight's "Drink Specials" are, so why do you do it during my solo?)
2)The "Frontman singerboy" that stands infront (up staging)of the musicians while they are playing solos or singing a song.
3) Band members that talk among themselves on stage during songs.
To my these are things that show that the band isn't interested in the music that they are playing. And if a band can't act like they are interested in what they are playing, then why should the audience be interested in what your playing?

JB Arnold · From: Longmont,Co,USA (deceased)

I'm with Ward. The multi-generational appeal of Lynyrd Skynyrd has always baffled me-and there's always 5 requests for their tunes every night, usually by drunk guys who yell for them from the back of the room.

JB

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Mike Winter · From: Portland, OR

Ha! One night out here in Portland at a place called Conan's a drunk kept yelling throughout the set for the band to play "Free Bird." So the drummer says, "You want a free bird? Here, here's a free bird!" And he flipped him the bird. One of the funniest things I ever saw. I guess you had to be there.

[This message was edited by Mike Winter on 02 November 2003 at 10:03 PM.]

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