Canned Pedal Steel?????

Neil Flanz · Post by **Neil Flanz** » 12 Oct 2003 6:42 pm

An acquaintance of mine pointed out this website that advertises prerecorded pedal steel guitar licks for producers to use. I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Have posted this simply as a matter of interest. I seriously doubt if any session players need worry too much at the moment.
http://www.steelloops.com/prices.html

MUSICO · Post by **MUSICO** » 13 Oct 2003 2:03 am

The player is an active forum member. I'm not saying who

Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 13 Oct 2003 2:37 am

i've asked this guy a question almost 2 weeks ago and i still haven't heard back from him...is he a road player...

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 13 Oct 2003 3:04 am

All chickens eventually come home to roost!

I guess we can now understand why drummers (and the unions) complained when "drum machines" first became available a few years back.
www.genejones.com

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 13 Oct 2003 3:51 am

I guess any of us who've ever used drum machines better keep our mouths shut now...

Michael Lewis · Post by **Michael Lewis** » 13 Oct 2003 6:07 am

According to the ABOUT page, it's by an experienced steeler named Kevin Ryan.
Other than money, I have no clue what he's thinking!
Mike Lewis

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 13 Oct 2003 6:37 am

Just a shot in the dark but maybe he's trying to make a living~~

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 13 Oct 2003 6:58 am

Hey a recording is a recording and I'm for hire for recordings Too....>it's a Good living and Go Get'um Kevin> You'da Man.
Ricky

Michael Lewis · Post by **Michael Lewis** » 13 Oct 2003 6:58 am

Jim, I'm sure that's true. I knew my reply sounded more harsh than I intended when I read it and I apologize for that.
It was based on my feeling that the steel is such an expressive instrument that interplays and paints musical colors and I feel strongly that "canned" steel would lose that most wonderful strength.
Mike

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 13 Oct 2003 7:01 am

Jim--

You can get stuff like this for every instrument, why not steel? Most people who would use this would not hire a real player anyway. Great job, Kevin.

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 13 Oct 2003 7:10 am

Electric drummers don't replace good drummers, just the bad ones. The good drummers I know are all working. Hopefully this will apply to steel players as well.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 13 Oct 2003 7:44 am

I'd say that steel sounds just right for what most producers want. I also think the guy who put those tracks down can make them sound real purty but producers are afraid of that.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 13 October 2003 at 08:46 AM.]

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 13 Oct 2003 8:21 am

Is that a push-pull, or an all-pull?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 13 Oct 2003 8:34 am

Well, here's an alternative view:

Maybe some folks will hear the recordings done using Kevin's samples and say, "hey that steel guitar sounds neat; I oughta use a steel player on my next recording", and then maybe they'll hire an actual player (not being aware that what they heard was actually "canned"). So, by this theory, maybe it helps us all...? (You buyin' this?)[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 13 October 2003 at 09:34 AM.]

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 13 Oct 2003 8:45 am

I've seen other versions of this at Guitar Center (in a display rack in the Pro-Audio section). They have a whole library of sampled cliche' licks for nearly every instrument imaginable, on CD.
They have it set up so you can put on the headphones, select an instrument, and and check out a bunch of samples.
Pedal Steel lick "123-A" please!

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 13 Oct 2003 9:05 am

Jim.

Don't count on getting any work from this at all. The people who do this computer sampling mess and call it music use as few players as they HAVE to. I see this being used for just some fills and flavor and not for any heavy solo stuff right now, so that will fill the bill for what computer guys do very nicely. Look at what they do with drum loops,bass loops, string loops and then ask your fellow recording musicians how much work they get from this and you will see that this is just another nail in the coffin of recording musicians. There will be other samples in the future that will be even better and can cover more use.

Nashville is about the only place where any large scale live recording is going on that involves getting 5 or 6 guys together in a room on a regular basis. LA and NY to a much lessor extent involving steel. Even in Nashville, my drummer buddy tells me they are doing loops and such with rhythm tracks. It's just a matter of time.

Sorry about the prophet of doom rant. I have just seen this movie so many times.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 13 Oct 2003 9:40 am

Back when the Hammond Organ, and then the Chamberlin Organ(Melotron) first came out, the(then powerful)American Ferderation of Musicians really had a freak out. They were convinced that these new fangled gizmos were gonna take work away from legit dues paying musicians. They were right.
Now I wonder who really cares? Life for musicians has gone on since then. I wonder how many string players in Nashville lost work when the "Fiddlers 3"(string section simultator for PSG) found it's way into the studios in the early 70's? My guess is not many. Things like this just forces us to adapt and evolve. Or not.

Niklas Widen · Post by **Niklas Widen** » 13 Oct 2003 9:47 am

Banjo samples, anyone?

http://supernakeddanceparty.com/looppacks/catalogue.php?cat=8

/Nicke W

Bill Monk · Post by **Bill Monk** » 13 Oct 2003 9:56 am

Every so often the question appears here: "What do producers want?"

One positive way to look at this loop CD is that it's a real specific answer to that question, categorized for easy learning.

If an aspiring player were to learn all these licks, be able to play them in tune, in every key, at the three different tempos listed, and most importantly, have them organized mentally so they can pull out I-IV moves, I-to-vi moves etc etc on demand...well, that person would have some serious amminution that would open doors.

Maybe this stuff wouldn't satisfy Nashville producers (and then again, maybe it would...) but it would satisfy most people in most places.

If a player showed up with enough musicianship to do what this CD does, it would be easy for a producer to ask that player for creative input as well.

If a player shows up and struggles with a "strange" key, has trouble with the tempo, hasn't got a lick for that particular style, is anyone going to care how much creativity he has?

Most music, frankly, doesn't require much creativity. Craftsmanship, knowing what kind of simple little things will fit in the current situation and deliverering them without fuss, that will get generally get the job done and get the check cut.

For $24, this thing looks like an excellent learning tool to me.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 13 Oct 2003 10:01 am

Hey, Kevin! That gives me an idea... you should write TAB for it and sell it back to US! LOL! No, really, I'm not kidding... sounds like there's probably a lot to learn from it.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 13 Oct 2003 10:51 am

Just for the sake of education...(my own mostly. I've only seen the the drum grooves used)...just how "manipulatable" are Acid Loops? What happens when you change keys and tempo's to make them fit a track? Are they as flexable as midi? Does the pitch get wobbly when you lower it or slow it down etc.?