First Timer/beginner/Byrds/Poco

Donald Davis · Post by **Donald Davis** » 26 Aug 2003 5:25 am

Greetings,

I just picked up a Sho-Bud Pro 1 a couple weeks ago and decided to learn the instrument. While a teenager, I saw Rusty Young play with Poco two pretty unforgetable times. At one show he seemed extremely motivated because they warmed up Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. Then, I got hooked by the movie and soundtrack to Coal Miner's Daughter. Next, I discovered the Byrds Sweetheart of the Rodeo. So, for years I have enjoyed the sound of the steel. Incidentally, Sweetheart of the Rodeo is available on disc with bonus tracks which demonstrate Lloyd Green and Jay Dee doing different licks. The pedal steel intros to those songs are very catchy and I assume that most of that work is Green- correct me if I am wrong. Also, I have been rehearing those great Poco peformances by listening to their early live album Deliverin'. As a guitarist for 33 years, I have always thought that Messina is one of the best. This recording proves that Young and Messina had a great sound, feel, riffs, you name it. Incidentally, because I play guitar without picks, I am attempting the same on the steel. A friend told me that it is one of the new trends. That gave me hope! This whole website is a real blessing and I feel honored to be a part of it.

Don

Tom Callahan · Post by **Tom Callahan** » 26 Aug 2003 5:34 am

Don;
Welcome to a world of knowledge. Being a beginner my self, I figured out that you can use the serch engine to tap into more knowledge than you ever imagined.
Have fun
tom callahan

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 Aug 2003 6:30 am

Don, go to the Forum CD sales site and check out a CD by Dr. Hugh Jeffreys of Memphis. He plays without picks, and you can hear the unique way it sounds on his CD. It is softer, with a more gentle attack. He plays jazz standards, not country or rock. In order to preserve the ability to palm block with your right hand, you might want to use a small, soft thumb pick. On the other hand, when you don't use picks, finger blocking is so effective that you need less palm blocking. Good luck with your learning - it's a long, steep slope for most of us.

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 26 Aug 2003 6:53 am

Don:

What David said!!

Dr. Hugh's website is

Here

You can hear samples of his playing there.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 26 Aug 2003 8:54 am

Don that's a great selection of music. I too
was attracted to steel by those steel players
and that music. Good luck.[This message was edited by Chuck McGill on 27 August 2003 at 07:35 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 26 Aug 2003 1:07 pm

Don, I totally agree with Chuck! And I'll bet you hear from Tony Prior on the Messina thing. Jimmy got the best Tele tone I've heard. I nearly wore that "DeLIVErin'" album out when I was 13 or 14.
Good luck with that Sho-Bud, they're great guitars!

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 26 Aug 2003 1:39 pm

I'd think twice about starting out without picks...

------------------
Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 26 Aug 2003 4:01 pm

You Better Think Twice!

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 26 Aug 2003 4:04 pm

"About leaving those picks behind"

------------------
Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 26 Aug 2003 4:10 pm

"Make up your mi-i-i-i-ind, about whatcha gonna do?"[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 26 August 2003 at 05:10 PM.]

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 26 Aug 2003 4:19 pm

Don, Trust me ..dont listen to them
"You take my advice"..

------------------
Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 26 Aug 2003 6:08 pm

I would, but "youuuuu... know it ain't easy"

Rick

Donald Davis · Post by **Donald Davis** » 26 Aug 2003 7:20 pm

I forgot to note that I have a rare copy of Gene Clark's "Two Sides to Every Story" on which Al Perkins plays some of the prettiest steel I have ever heard.

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 26 Aug 2003 9:12 pm

I can't think of the next line. Damn!

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 26 Aug 2003 9:13 pm

Oh Woman you've got to choose..? Is that it?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Aug 2003 2:00 am

oopps..a line got left out..

"You got nothin' more to loose"...

I guess we are pretty much playing the same song here..but..
are we in the same key..?? not that it matters. We're probably not in tune anyway...
just like a regular gig !

Very excellent music to listen to make the cross from sorta rock to sorta country..

Great singing, great playing and great songs ! And not to mention the amount of trivia that comes with the mentioned bands..

And yes..if you wanna play like and SOUND like Jimmy Messina, ( thank you Stephen) you gotta loose the picks..

Seeing the original POCO lineup a few times is still a great memory...

tp

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 27 Aug 2003 5:32 am

All i'm trying to do is share my experiences. I've been playing without picks now for over 20 years. I'm a weekend warrior with a semi busy schedule(4 to 6 gigs per month).
When I play I use my nails (which I keep 1/8 " longer on my picking hand. If I break a nail or cut it too short i'm forced to play with the meat of the finger.
When that happens I cant get the attack I need for proper sustain and tone. Also, after 3 sets my fingers are raw as hell.
Generally speaking this added maintenance is becoming a real pain in the ass.
I wouldn't have this problem if I started out using picks in the first place.
And lets' be real honest about it...the main reason we probably didn't learn to use picks in the early years was the lack of determination to get through the learning curve. I'll cop to that.
It would be .. A Good Feeling To Know ..
I could make it through a gig without any pain.
Finally, look around...there has to be some reason why EVERYBODY uses them.

------------------
Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

[This message was edited by BobG on 27 August 2003 at 06:37 AM.]

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 27 Aug 2003 7:25 am

I make my living playing "underarm" guitars and basses. I also play just enough steel guitar to almost warrant owning one but I love the instrument!

Anyway I cannot use the traditional finger picks that most steelers use. I use my nails and all my fingers AND I use the finger picks called Alaska picks. They hook under the nail and fit on the TOP side of the finger. They sound great and allow you to play with your fingerstyle technique. You can do tremolo and up and down strumming that is just not possible with the metal picks.

Give them a try if you are a fingernail player.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 27 Aug 2003 8:20 am

Welcome to this Great Forum Don D

thar's Gold in these Hills !
Great bunch of miners too
You better think twice + that long tune w: a Spanish handle sure got me goin'
btw:i'm a ShoBudist too
Topic Drift:
better to know how to play w: picks and have to play without them
than to know how to play w: just the fingers and havin to play w: picks

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 27 Aug 2003 8:38 am

Don,
Listening to Rusty Young on Poco's album knocks me out! Great work!

Theresa[This message was edited by Theresa Galbraith on 27 August 2003 at 09:39 AM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 27 Aug 2003 11:52 am

I have played with them and without them, but you jes' cain't get that twang and whine without 'em. They've become part of the sound.

Don't get me started on Jimmy Messina. Man, what a creative guitar player... and he's way underrated. Half the stuff I play now is straight from him, and I do it like second nature... that style has become part of my musical vocabulary.

Does anybody remember that great stuff he played on "You Need A Man" w/ the Loggins and Messina band? Nobody else was doing anything like that back then. In my opinion he did as much for the Tele as James Burton (I know this will be contested, but I feel that way).

Rick

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Aug 2003 12:04 pm

Rick, yes..

Jimmy Messina in my little mind has done as much if not more for Tele's as anyone else. I think he is in a very small group of inovators for this Instrument..and I fully agree, he was not recognized for his incredible talent and foresight back then..but today..yipes..lookout..

I remember having an arguement with another guitar player back then, he was telling me how crappy Jimmy was, I on the otherside was claiming his brilliance.then I said something about his tone and the remark came back, " Oh anybody with a Telecaster can sound like that " I quickly replied " You don't"...

Then the excuses followed like only a bad Bowler could create...

We have to keep in mind that the era was Cream and Eric Clapton, Hendrix,Page, Jeff Beck etc...it was really hard to come thru that crowd at the time...

I sure am grateful I was around and influenced back then.

tp

Oh yeh..I use picks with the Steel and no picks with the Tele' I pick off my finger tips..not my fingernails..[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 27 August 2003 at 01:06 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 27 Aug 2003 1:56 pm

"Angry Eyes"... geez Louise. What great playing... You and I are on the same page, Tony.[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 27 August 2003 at 02:58 PM.]

Donald Davis · Post by **Donald Davis** » 27 Aug 2003 3:04 pm

The case for Messina:

1. He mastered playing parts in harmonty in a era when most cats were only playing single notes.

2. He is just as strong, if not stronger on the accoustic guitars, both steel and nylon.

3. He kept growing as a musician and eventually played almost almost every style.

4. If he played "You Better Think Twice" as recorded on the Deliverin' LP without the use of a pickup (which is what it looks like)he demonstrated an extraordinary confidence in his ability to project.

5. I don't think Jimmy would mind that I am not using picks on the steel. I think he would just say - "It ain't no sin".

Rich Paton · Post by **Rich Paton** » 27 Aug 2003 9:31 pm

Don, whatever techniqes you choose will work great...as long as you KEEP ON TRYIN'
I transitioned from a diehard Springfield nut to a diehard Poco nut, instantaneously. Poco music yielded something that was more than the sum of each players' parts. Then there's the vocals!
Jim did a Jazz album you should hear, to me a real jaw dropper. He teaches at his no-nonsense school in Santa Barbara. A nickel spent there gives the student a nickel's worth.
George Grantham still blows me away when I listen to old POCO. He was so damned good at so young an age when Poco started out.
In a parallel universe, ponder the implications of Poco retaining the management which the Eagles did. The good AND the bad.