The Steel Guitar Forum

I have been getting lots of feedback lately saying that there are several new clubs opening up on "Broadway" ( A street, I presume) in Nvl.

A few more than normal people are urging me to "move there" after listening to my gigs..

Usually it's coming from people that have had a little too much to drink, (or guitar players that I've played over the top of for 5 hours) so I thought I'd ask.

Damir?

EJL

Signs on Bandstand:

"If you are visibly Impaired or Intoxicated, your advice will not be taken very seriously."

" Do not disturb the musicians Further"

Eric, wake up. Unless you are willing to compete with the likes of monster players like Mike Sweeney, Gary Morse, Tommy Hannum, Carco Clave, and John Hughey you should think twice. Many more also. Oh yeah, you get to maybe start at thirty dollars a night, IF you could get a spot.

Well, even thinking once is a bit of a stretch.

I suppose competing anywhere is dubious with my limitations, but it doesn't seem to slow me down much here where there are guys that have played longer than I've been alive...

I'm just getting bored.

Sadly, discouragement is one of my chief motivators. Most of what I do, including playing of music seems to be done out of pure spite.

I love it when people I know come back from "scouting expeditions" reporting gleefully that there are "sh##y" bands out there, and they are sure that they can get work...

I feel quite the opposite.

My table waiting and dump truck driving skills are right up there with the Day Job Greats..

Would you like extra fries with that burger?

More Special Sauce?

Dump this rock over there?

Sorry about the stop sign.



EJL

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Eric West on 04 May 2003 at 12:36 PM.]</p></FONT>

When I moved to Nashville I never even considered the idea that I was entering a competition. I guess some people feel that way.
Eric, if you are considering moving to Nashville based on the availability of work on Broadway... DON'T
However, if you just want an adventure I would encourage you to bring all of your skills...dump truck driving, table waiting, and steel playing and be willing to use them all.

(I was just kidding about the table waiting skills.)

Looking at things "from here" I have to consider what the "Country Music" "futures market" is.

It's looking like there is a resurgence of Country Music, and it seems to fare the best under "republican administrations" which seem to be the only game in town for the forseeable future.

Of course the "Broadway Expansion" that I heard about is only an indicator, and hacks such as myself can usually find plenty that "trickle down" in such a climate. I'm sure they have Critter Clubs.. Internet searches are pretty spotty. I see a Chickamawga Dam project, and others there, but I guess a "general" overview is what I'm questioning, more than reports of a lousy band playing at Tootsies..

I see that Tennessee is a "Right to Work State" which is not much of an indicator, as Oregon is not, though it seems to be a "right to starve to death working three jobs" state, and union wages aren't any higher than rat wages. I could tell anybody details of the "overview here" from my point of view. I know a little about a lot.

TIA for any info.

EJL

If you want a job touring with a nationally known country artist then that might be a reason to move to Nashville.
If you want to play in clubs or any other kind of live venue then Nashville,to me,might not be the best place.
From my experience, Phoenix, Arizona is a pretty good place for getting corporate type playing jobs. Example: Hotels, Cookouts, Resorts, Trail Rides, Conventions etc...There are some recording studios there and a few nightclubs.
One great advantage to being in Nashville is being able to go out and see great players, up close and personal.
Stopped by 3rd and Lindsley the other night and listened to Sneaky Pete Kleinow.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tom Mortensen on 04 May 2003 at 02:01 PM.]</p></FONT>

Hi Eric,
yes,there is a lot of great players in Nashville,but there is also a lot of gigs too.If you are a good musician you will always find a gig in Nashville.But then again,the Nashville is the best place to go shop around Pawn shops for a cheap pro gear,because there is many,many,musicians who come to Nashville and got discouraged and sold their instruments to get a bus ticket back home.If you are willing to get a day job and play music on the side you have a chanse to get somewhere.They say,you need to give Nashville 5 years for the things to start happening.Some are lucky and get it sooner but many never make it.Good friend of mine,John Gilman just died yesterday,he was 62.He was a great musician and song writer and every day he hoped that his day will come.It never did.He was in Nashville for a many years.We have to figure out now how to pay for his funeral and all the other expences.He didn`t have nothing but his guitar,his music and his Johny Cash records.He made some contacts and things started to roll,but,too late.And Frank Parish said here once that he doesn`t even know how many benefit gigs he played for the musicians in financial trubles.I played a few myself.But,even so,I would never move from Nashville.It is a great place to live,so much music and so many great musicians on the one place you can`t find anywhere.Bands playing down town all the time,Bobbe and his SGN store where you never know who will show up,Grand Ole Opry,etc...Eric,if that`s what you want,pack your guitar and move.There is nothing to lose,you are person who is not scared of hard work and there is planty of that here and you can try your luck playing in the clubs.Maybe you`ll get hired by an Artist who walks in the club where you play and end up on the big stage but maybe you wont.But if you don`t give it a try, there is only one sure thing,you wont.I work,and play on Saturdays and I`m ok with that.Would I take a road gig and leave my day job?I`m not sure anymore about that.When I was younger,no doubt that I would,but now?I never made it to the big stage, but I stil wouldn`t go anywhere from here.Just too much great music here,and music is my life.Whatever you decide to do Eric,I wish you the best.
Sincerely,your bud,Damir


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<SMALL>...you get to maybe start at thirty dollars a night...</SMALL>

Hey Kevin,
Try $20 a night,for 4 hrs.,w/o a break!

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<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre></font>

Eric,you being a Harley guy and a great mechanic (I hear) I know where you can get a steel guitar job working days!
As far as making money in Nashville playing steel guitar goes, anyone can with mediocur playing skills, a good easy to get along with personality, depedable, looks clean and neat, does what he says he'll do and keeps a good reputation. Those that have complaints with Nashville are probably not minding the rules. I see many players come to town and do great! I see very few lose weight! AND, regardless of what you hear, there aren't ten steel players standing on every corner starving to death. Get rich? Forget that, be a plumber,(in Nashville and play nights).
You'll never starve here. But you'll not be very rich either, most likely.

Amen...Dr.Seymour has spoken the truth again

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Hey Bobbe, I'm a plumber. What do you think I should do?

This is too much. I've been seeing 'plumber'
come up a bit more lately here on the Forum,
so I just had to ask?

Chipper

Thanks guys.

I think Portland is as hard to "make it" in as I have seen. Mostly the "day thing" as it's the highest unemployment rate in the nation. I'm working spottily, were the other 90% of "my craft" is sitting home. I tend to be a "meat eater" if there is "edible prey".

ONE club that goes 7 nites a week paying 75$/weeknite and 115$@ on fri-sat. I'm working it with two to three of the bands that work it. (Two of them back to back this coming week just like last month and next month, and 150$ two nighters in between with still another + recording.) Not just jobs where you can "sit down looking the way you want to and play along with "your own style", believe me. There are singing guitar/keyboards and female vocs that would love to get my gigs. That's usually what I "replace". Probably some steel players too, but we all seem to spend more of our time creating work for each other and passing gigs around. I'd miss that "family atmosphere" I'm sure..

They say that like other "small businesses" most musicians fold before the first year is out. Then most of them fold the second, and so on.

There are people playing here for less then 50$ a nite, but I've *never* had to be one of them in the 20 years I've been at it. It could't be that difficult to do, but then I wouldn't know.

Like Donald Trump said. "I could lose money and fail any time I want. It's not hard at all".

This summer I've booked some travelling gigs, and might use the opportunity of my recent day job slump induced "hillbilly renaissance" to jump on something or move to a new place.

We'll see.

Maybe Iraq. I get really dark in the summertime.....

Thanks to all.

EJL

Well, as i see it,
A plumber has a great responsibility.

Has to know:

Hot, on the left:
Cold, on the right:
$#!t won't run up-hill:
Payday is on Fri.

I derived that a steel player that thinks he can invade Nashville,,
and bump some of the greatest to ever $#!t behind a pair of brown brougans.

Needs to go to the Jeff Newman Couarses And Plumbing school.

Just Kiddin Eric.

Kenny

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66 Emmons D-10 bolt-on


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 04 May 2003 at 08:41 PM.]</p></FONT>

Eric, just some other thoughts. I played a big place last night. Concert sound and lighting. 500 people. I am lucky enough to be in a Nashville quality band. Rehearsed, dressed, booked months in advance and well paid. Opens for major acts, etc. I purposely go to Nashville about every three months to keep
my head on straight. I play five instruments and sing harmonies. Been playing thirty years. After I get off stage people always come up to me and ask me why I am not in Nashville, and my first reaction is humility, then reality. I really enjoy going to Nashville and seeing the players play. It puts it in perspective. People locally think I'm good because I can play some C6th and I've wood sheded countless hours on steel to develop as a steel player, but the truth be known, comparitively to my friends in Nashville, I suck. I'm just rehearsed. You are right. I see some of the suck bands down on Broadway who are laughable. Jamboree local material here. But I've also seen the names mentioned above playing with other monster players. Believe me, you don't want to follow Buck Reid after he plays. These players are seasoned veterans. However good you think you are, they'll emasculate you on steel. It is a real treat for me just to watch the players do what they do. I enjoy their work as much as I do playing myself. Most of the time more. I don't want to discourage you. It IS do able. I'd just rather here Bobbe Seymour play than myself. Ever!

BBBBWWAAAahahaha

Well, as i see it,
A plumber has a great responsibility.

Has to know:

Hot, on the left:
Cold, on the right:
$#!t won't run up-hill:
Payday is on Fri.

In Excavation there is no "Hot". Only Cold, and colder.

You either hit the power or gas line, or you are fine.

*It* often runs uphill more than down, or there would be no need for "us".

Payday is whenever the threats become effective.

Cats usually stay on the trailer or they fall off. Usually there are more than one just in case.

Things you "almost do" are best forgotten.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>I derived that a steel player that thinks he can invade Nashville.
and bump some of the greatest to ever $#!t in front of a pair of brown brougans.</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well. Two things can't happen to me at this point. I can't be killed at a young age, and my career can't be ruined.

The trick is to $#!t just behind the heels, being mindful of the pantlegs and belt.. At least that's how we do it Up Nawth.

<SMALL>Needs to go to the Jeff Newman Courses And Plumbing school.</SMALL>

Is this "Jeff Newmann" a Plumber?

>Just Kiddin Eric.

Back atcha.

>Kenny



EJL

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Kevin. I hear you loud and clear. I felt thataway about some of the bands I saw in N VA and S MD, not to mention the banj0* (*sensor deactivator) playing kids in Lynchburg.

I'd much rather go home and know I need a LOT more practice "ripped to shreds" than some of the horrible stuff I've felt after "comfortable gigs". I miss the feeling.. It's miserable not to be able to get through Raisin the Dickens because the band can't remember the chords. You begin to believe that you couldn't play it if they did..

There are always more reasons not to "go off the edge of the world". I look at my relatives that never left Minnesota.. Then I tend to "head out", just like thankfully my Dad did in 1952.

We'll see.

Jeff Newmann can't be working all the jobs...



EJL
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Eric West on 04 May 2003 at 08:53 PM.]</p></FONT>

Well, you non-plumber cats have it somewhat correct, but from my little corner of the world, the plumbing knowledge you dismiss as 'good-enuff' would
hardly get you through basic high school physics & mechanical enginneeing, never mind any State Plumbing Exam. In three parts, by the way: oral, practical, and written.

Good Luck! See you on Monday for the underground work.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 04 May 2003 at 09:28 PM.]</p></FONT>

Chip. No kiddin. Of all trades to pick, Plumbing is probably the most difficult, with the most difficult exams. Electricians' are probably even less difficult.

In my case, Heavy Equipment and combination dump/transfer hauling, over 50ton gvw is probably the easiest thing to "get a certification" for, and the hardest thing to do and come home in one piece besides possibly logging. You can get arrested, put in jail for years, sued out of every penny you'll eve make, and killed or maimed before the first coffee break on any given day. Not to mention being jacked up hourly by people that'd rather beat you up as look at you. It's sure put the "threatened by violence thing" in a lot better perspective..

I'd trust a truck driver or plumber to do my dental work, or teach my grandkids, before I'd let my dentist or a school teacher fix my pipes or haul my trac hoe..

Then there's musicians....

EJL

Trust me....

Nashville is NOT the place you want to be right now !!!

This is a dog eat dog world here. While I do NOT wish to rain on your parade,there are far too many players here you would need to conplete with.

Look at it this way.....
You need to establish yourself as a major player outside of "Nashville"... Think as "David Wright" and other players who are doing,and playing gigs outside of the "Nashburg" venue,and have established a name for themselfs. You (and me)as an "non-professional" players,don't stand a chance of makeing a decent livin' here !!!

Now,as you would like to think,Country Music is a Major Factor here,That's not a Reality....

It's a long and hard road to "Nashville"....
Not too many make it. While there are often a few who do succeed,the rest of us,must accept the fact that we are NOT going to make a "Livin" playing clubs,studio work, or "gig's" here in Nashville.

O.K...... I must admit, I (and others) have had a lot of fun and somewhat established a name in the area,we do NOT rely upon the MUSIC venue to support the family or other ventures we need to really support life and such. It is a venue we love and support as a venture into "Music" and as a hobby.

I must admit that,far,too many players,singers and and pickers have thought that they could come here and make an im-pression upon the powers that be,have failed to do so,because they have failed to present a ....

1) Named player
2) Singer
3) Rap group

I guess,I am saying,

1) You had better be very good.
2) Have a name out there.

3) or, be willin' to spend somewhat time, $$$$,to get your name into the public .

As I am attempting to present this as a reality here in the "Nashville" area, Please be ad-vised that.....

1)That are a lot of people that are better than you who are willin' to contract the job.

2)Do a good a show as you did....
3)Be willin' to "under-cut" the cost.
4)and tell the players,

1) We didn,'t make the profits.
2) You owe us the.......


(The wife is a hollowing.... We nee to go now'


I will continue later.....

Thanks.

I guess overall, an not making light of the reality of competition, is an idea of how many 7 night clubs there are in the surrounding area that have "country" music, what the average wage is, and how many steel players are in line for how many jobs, in real numbers.

Im gonna try a google search and see what blanks I can fill in.

Thanks.

EJL

Are you young and good-looking? That's the <u>first</u> thing they'll notice when you try to get a road, or high-profile gig. Sadly, age (having grey hair and wrinkles) and being overweight are considered a detriment to most "wannabe" entertainers. Most of the big stars now want to be surrounded by young players, because they are more appealing to a young audience.

"Image is everything."

Well. If I do say so myself, I'm DAMN good looking considering all of the abuse. Maybe it's the diesel facials I get on a daily basis.

Seriously though, I've been checking the nashville entertainment guides, and it looks suspiciously "low dollar" with karoke, "house features" and other "red flags" all over the place. The Fiddle and Steel guitar place looks interesting, as do some of the "outlying" non web listed places. I also see the Time Jumpers, who I'd indeed like to see if I ever get there.

My experience here is that unless I'm willing to look the way I don't normally look "at home" play music that's not meant for "your fathers' steel guitar", be willing to do things that constantly stretch my abilities, and especially NOT look, act, or BE totally dependent on income from playing for my survival, then I won't make it very far anywhere.

My grandpa gave me some real good advice over 40 yrs ago. He said that "you gotta have a gimmick". Also that you have to have your boots as "shiny as a (horrible expletive deleted)'s heel". My first dog that looked like "Mike" was my first one. The latest is my big old panhead. I spit shine my justins for hours.

Don't ask me why, but they're the two things that have gotten me the farthest. Right next to an extremely persistent attitude, and being known as a man of my word. Also confusing the word "no" for "try another way" when I hear it...

Here's the one I found right away. http://nashvillelife.com/entertainment/

Possibly what I might do is get a "package tour" deal when they get cheap, and stay with relatives in Kentucky for a short time to check it out. Probably around this coming fall.

You know I'm luckily one of those people that's been getting "better looking" as I approach the big Five O. I don't know what it is.. I end up having to explain a lot of phone numbers wadded up in my pants pockets.

I'm sure not complaining.

It could all go to heck in a hurry.

Thanks to all.

We'll see.

EJL

First.....thanks Kevin!! Next time,please introduce yourself so i can put a face with the name
Eric,what i'm seeing here is some of the players that live here are discouraging you with a few bitter realities. While mostly true,i would bet that you couldn't have told "them" any different when they were contemplating making the same decision. Follow your heart,you can always leave! You can't learn what you need to know,unless you're here. If this is just something you want to try and you're giving up security to do it,then it may not be worth it at your tender age. But,if this is a burning desire and your pretty care free,i say go for it!!
My two cents

"being overweight are considered a detriment to most"


"Image is everything."


Donny,
I know you've said "most," but the "image" thing hasn't hurt the Queen of Soul, Luther Vandross, Jackie Gleason, Oliver Hardy and Oscar Peterson. You think if I put on 75 pounds, it might improve my steel playing?

Gary LeEeeeeee

Eric, it's been a long time since I lived in Nashville, but I recently vacationed there and it doesn't seem to have changed much, so I'm gonna take a stab at answering some of your questions. Those who still live there can correct me if I'm wrong. Nashville is not the big "live country music" town one might think. It's a small city and the local middle and upper classes don't listen to country. The biggest show in town of course is the Opry, which I don't think anyone except the backup and full-time people who put on the show actually make a living at. It thrives off of out-of-towners, not locals. The out-of-towners tend to be an older or family crowd that doesn't tend to go out all night drinkin' in honky-tonks and dance halls after they leave the Opry. It's not like Texas, where lots of locals go out every weekend to the same bar and support good house bands and travelling groups.

There are always two or three places like The Exit Inn (or the Station Inn for bluegrass) that have well known acts (not all country) that rotate through, and they don't keep house bands. These are small places. My impression is that they don't pay a whole lot, but a lot of big name people will occassionally play them, just because it is Nashville.

Then there are the places on Broadway, Nashville's main street downtown. Not many locals frequent these, but they catch a small crowd of tourists in town for the Opry. Unless times have changed, these pay about enough to keep you in new strings. They might book a house band, mostly novices, for awhile. When I lived there, top pros did not play these places on a regular basis, but occassionally would drop in and jam, but not for the money really.

The locals frequent some small dives and honky-tonks out in the neighborhoods around Nashville and surrounding small towns. These are not as many as you might think, pay diddly, and mostly local amateurs and semi-pros play there for the hell of it on weekends. These may never see a top pro.

The pros who make a good living in Nashville do it in the studios and with the good paying acts on the road. There may be a lot of these guys, but they are busy and you don't see as much of them as you might expect, unless you worm your way in to watch a lot of studio sessions, many of which are closed.

Whoever above said it takes about 5 years to break into Nashville might be about right. If you have made a name for yourself outside of Nashville it might go a little quicker. Cynics would say you have to know someone, but a more realistic way to look at it is you have to make yourself known.

So a novice (and everyone coming to Nashville is a novice until they prove otherwise) will not make good money right away, and you may have to get a day job to start out, and fall back on it from time to time. But if you are good, and you stick around a few years, eventually some things will come your way. In the meantime you will hear some fantastic music and meet some fantastic people, some of whom will be famous some day, even if you never are.