The Steel Guitar Forum

I saw BR549 at the Metro Bar in Chicago the other night. Their Steel Player is Don Herron and he sounds wonderful. To give you an idea of what BR549 sounds like, they are a little bit of Hank Sr., Texas swing, and honky tonk wrapped up in BR549's own unique style which is very upbeat and sincere. Back to the steel...Don's guitar has side by side necks but there were no pedals or levers. I asked him and he said it is an old National and it's tuned to C#m9 and E13. Also, each neck has 8 strings, not 10. I didn't want to bug him too much and ask too many questions because he was tearing down for the next band to take the stage. I don't play steel yet but I want to and I want to get an instrument I can play this kind of music on. Are these tunings common? Does a person buy a C6/E9 guitar and then just retune it to this tuning or was this guitar made especially for this tuning? Don't most have 10 strings per neck? Would a person learning off the record just try to play the same essential chords and shoot for getting the essence of what she heard rather than a note for note re-performance? I guess this is really the preference anyway with most music but because it's easier for a beginer to do the note for note copy I'm wondering which instrument I can get the most milage out of. (I need to buy one) Also, how do you figure out what tuning a song is in? Since Pedal steel has various numbers of strings and levers and pedals and different tunings it seems hard to figure out which combination is going on in any one particular piece of music. How do you figure it out? Last question...Does anybody know a teacher near Chicagoland and a store that has them on the floor?

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Those tunings were common 50 years ago, in the era before pedal guitars. The only people who use them today are the "retro" bands such as BR-549.

You can do a lot more with a pedal guitar. Of course you can have both (10 string with pedals and an old 8 string with no pedals). Either one would be OK for a beginner.

Jeanne, welcome to steel guitar land. Sometimes the amount of information can be baffling and daunting, but the beginning is to start asking.

Basically, there are two types of steel guitars... pedal steel and non-pedal. The pedal steels can be subdivided by number of necks and number of strings per neck; currently the predominant variations of this species are D10 (two "double" 10-string necks), S10 (one 10-string neck), and S12 (one 12-string neck). Occasionally you'll see a D12, an S8 (one eight string neck), a D8, an S14, or some other combination, but the three most popular neck/string combinations are the ones I mentioned.

The pedal steel, which most of us play here, evolved from the non-pedal steel, which is what don played the other night. This type of instrument is also classified by necks/strings. Don played a D8. There are also S8's, as well as triple-8's and even 4-neck 8's ("quads") This instrument itself evolved from 6-string steel guitars. Non-pedal steels, occasionally called "Hawaiian steels," can either be assembled on legs and played standing or sitting, or can be played resting on the player's lap in a sitting position. The term "lap steel," though technically incorrect when referring to the guitars on legs, is also a generally used term for the non-pedal steel.

The number of strings on these instruments, and the number of pedals as well, evolved from the need for players to achieve different chord and string combinations. While there are basically 3 predominant tunings, or "copedents," for the pedal steel (E9th, C6th, and Universal E9/B6... there are occasionally others), the non-pedal steel has multitudes of tunings, since those guitars don't have pedals and levers to instantly change the pitch of selected strings, thereby changing the basic tuning. Some common tunings for non-pedal steels are G Major, A Major, A6th, C6th, E Major, E6th, E13th, C# Minor, and B11th, but there are many more that have been used and even each of these named above have their own variations as used by individual players.

Most "modern" post-1950's country music employs the pedal steel, while music from the previous era utilized the non-pedal, but of course there are no hard and fast rules regarding what style of music is played on what instrument. Pedal steels can effectively recreate the sounds of non-pedals, and non-pedal steel can be found in much of today's music. It's up to the decisions made by the player making the music.

Hope this helps a little bit to clear things up.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jeanne, welcome to the world of steel guitar. And I want to point out that your post was just answered by two of the steel guitar community's most illustrious members. Earnest Bovine is Doug Livingston, one of LA's leading session players. Herb Steiner is one of the leading lights of the Texas scene, and one of my favorite convention friends. There is no shortage of opinions on this forum as you will find. Lots of other great people on the forum you should listen to, and by mention ing particular people I don't want to give the idea that they are the only people you should listen to. With that disclaimer, I also suggest you look twice at Ricky Davis posts - another Texas player with a lot of great stuff to share and who routinely gives great advice. Lots of legendary players like Buddy Emmons drop in from time to time as well.

Most people who embark on learning steel guitar today choose a pedal steel guitar. For all the reasons Earnest and Herb indicated to you. Wonderful things have been and continue to be done without pedals, and there are some great players who switch back and forth effortlessly. Big Jim Murphy, currently playing with Asleep at the Wheel, is a great example - he switches back and forth several times over the course of a show.

You won't find many stores with pedal steels on the floor - not saying for certain there isn;t one around Chicago that has a few though. Spend some time on the Forum, follow some links to do some listening, read about the guitars available (there are links to most of the major manufacturers, if it can be said that there is such a thing as a major manufacturer of pedal steels). And by the way, there are lots of fine non-pedal instruments being made as we speak. Keep checking the buy-sell section of this forum and you will get an idea of what is available in the used market and what kinds of prices are out there.

One place to see what is available in terms of instruments in at one of teh conventions. One of the major ones ins in Dallas March 9-. Anotehr is the International Steel Guitar Convention in St. Louis on labour day weekend. And by the way, Scotty, who runs the convention, has a music stor in St. Louis that will always have a few steels around. The Carter company in the Dallas area would no doubt always have a few of their completed instruments sitting around. Bobbe Seymour has such a store in Nashville. My good freind Al Brisco (Steel Guitars of Canada) is in the Toronto area and usually seems to have a few guitars hanging around. Check out the "links" on the forum and you will find these places. There may well be someone in the Chicago area that has some instruments around - one isn't coming to mind right now though.

Good luck.

I'm glad to see another BR-549 fan here.

Donnie really gets the most out of what he's got. He was just south of here a couple months back performing with another band.

He'd borrowed a couple lap steels, a 6-string and an 8-string. Really made them sing. He also had a PSG, but seemed to be having some mechanical trouble with it so did a great job with just the two guitars and of course his compliment of traditional country instruments he fills in on.

Here is a guy that knows his way around basic beginner lap steels.

I was able to visit with him shortly and get some pointers and tunings from him. Really a genuine guy...and marvelous performer. Too bad he wasn't with his real band.

You got the best here giving you advice, so I'll back on out...best of luck to you.

JEANNE, welcome to a nutty world of frustration,tempered by a mixture of
rewards and stimulating challenges!
I personally think your first big
decision should be: pedals or non-
pedals. A non-pedal steel is usually
lighter in weight,more compact to carry,
and slightly cheaper. As Ernest Bovine
said,"you can do more with pedals",but
that doesn't mean that you cannot play
an awful lot of beautiful tunes without
them. A non-pedal steel requires a
great deal of right and left hand
dexterity and work to keep up with the
pedal players. Whichever you choose,
the real secret of success is simply
long hours of intensive practice and
study. If you should go with "non-pedals"
I would recommend at least 8 strings
because the chord possibilities multiply
exponentially with each string. Pedals
can do the same plus more.
Good luck,you have a great
support group right here on the Forum!
~~W.C.~~<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 23 November 2002 at 03:17 PM.]</p></FONT>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>Donnie really gets the most out of what he's got. He was just south of here a couple months back performing with another band.

He'd borrowed a couple lap steels, a 6-string and an 8-string. Really made them sing.</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those were my guitar's and amp. Glad you liked them. I always let Donnie use my gear when he's out this way, because he has so much fun playin and it gives me an excuse to sit in with him.
Jeanne, don't ever worry about asking Donnie about steels and tunings he'll talk for hours about it.(that applies to just about all steel players)
Just keep asking questions and learn as much as you can.

Let me throw my 2 cents in. These guys are exactly right, but one problem that you will encounter was not emphasized enough. Be prepared to experience a lot of frustation, learning to play steel is a leap from extreme frustation when you hear someone play something that you can't as of yet play, to the sheer delight when you finally find it. It doesn't stop there, I've been playing steel for more than 50 years, and I still have those "ups and downs" . That is how you discover whether you really want to learn. There will be so many times you'll want to give up,and so many excuses to quit, It's a tough road, but if you have the burning desire that most of us have, you'll make it , and you'll never be sorry.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Florence on 24 November 2002 at 10:40 AM.]</p></FONT>

Also if you never get around to playing steel I hope you will contribute and learn all you can from folks who have been on the inside of recording some great music.

I've been a serious BR549 fan since 1996 and I'm glad they survived the change in players
with grace. Also you can ask Chris Scruggs about non pedal steel.

Also if anyone is regesterd and reading the BR549 message board send me a message about getting a drink from our cybra bar.
http://www.br549.com/forum/


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Janice "Busgal" Brooks
ICQ 44729047

Alvin; Glad to meet the guy with the gear.

Donnie said he had a buddy that lent him the stuff for the gig. Guess it helps a bunch to have buddies like yourself...So were you at the show in Mesquite?

Thank you all for taking time to answer my questions. It helped a lot!

Jeanne - For what it's worth I was asking the same questions about eight years ago when I took up the steel guitar. I too am a big fan of the retro steel sounds of bands like BR549, Big Sandy, Ray Condo, etc. If this is the sound you're into, I would suggest you get yourself a little 6 or 8 string lap steel. They are inexpensive and tuned to a C6, it's pretty easy to get some of those nice old-timey country sounds you like, right off the bat. I say jump right in, start enjoying and let it take you wherever you decide you want to go with it. Best of luck to you!

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Tim Whitlock
'58 Fender 1000, '56 Fender Stringmaster, '65 Twin Reissue

Herb!!
YOU ARE THE MAN!!
I would like to give you a round of aplause. you should right a book on this instrument. you have loads of knowledge and are willing to share it with anyone whom might ask. the hall of fame should really keep you in mind! ( you have my vote !!)
BOO