R Randolph and a New Era for Steel Guitar?

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 18 Nov 2002 10:09 pm

Lots of us have posted/commented on the "phenommena" of Robert Randolph's speedy rise to prominence- rumors I've been hearing appear to be confirmed that he has signed a FAT three CD deal with Warner Brothers for his own label- for steel only releases. Supposedly Warner Bros. has committed some real support and a lack of creative direction- meaning Robert's steel may be reaching a whole new HUGE mainstream audience within the next few years. Robert has mentioned guests like Eric Clapton and Michael Jackson in connection with his upcoming recordings. There is a fairly large spread on Robert, The Campbell Brothers, and Willie Eason in the Jan. 2003 issue of "Guitar One", which is editorially aimed at the teenage pop guitar market- all the earmarks of Steel Guitar making some entirely new inroads into pop culture. Hold onto your hats...

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John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 18 Nov 2002 10:57 pm

I love this Lloyd Green quote about Robert:

(from the Nashville Tennessean)

"When Nashville steel master Lloyd Green met Randolph recently, he was impressed by how much Randolph didn't know about country pedal steel playing.

''Somebody who's going to take this instrument into a different dimension has to be somebody who's not influenced or contaminated by what we do,'' he says."

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 19 Nov 2002 8:33 am

He's gonna be on Austin City Limits
next month.
<a href=http://www.pbs.org/klru/austin/artists/ ... Details</a>

Sam Minnitti · Post by **Sam Minnitti** » 19 Nov 2002 11:53 am

That is a good point.. You have to keep in mind that 'kids' who want to take up the steel guitar because they hear Robert Randolph are going to want to sound like Robert Randolph, not like the established greats as they will not even know who they are or what they sound like. This of course has been happening in the 6-string guitar world for years and years.

While the overall popularity of the steel guitar may increase going forward, I think the focus will be more narrow.

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www.samminnitti.com

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Nov 2002 12:13 pm

"contaminated"? Oh my...

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Nov 2002 12:26 pm

I believe Robert Randolph will inspire some people to take up the steel and try to play like him, but I'm willing to bet that some of those people will go on to discover and learn other styles of playing too. Maybe E9 country, maybe swing.

Think about how a lot of kids first got exposed to the blues through Eric Clapton and/or the Rolling Stones, and went on to discover the original artists like Robert Johnson and Howling Wolf. I think the same thing will happen here.

Something else to consider is that some new players will start by emulating Randolph, but add thier own ideas to his style and take it to another level or even come up with somehing completely new. Just as guitar playing has advanced over the years because many new players have taken what they learned from their idols and mentors and added a little something of their own to the overall body of knowledge, so too will this new style of playing.

Randolph's success may turn out to be a major turning point in the history of our instrument. It may not be in the direction many of us prefer, but it's still a major shot in the arm for the steel in general.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Nov 2002 12:35 pm

While the overall popularity of the steel guitar may increase going forward, I think the focus will be more narrow

Or, should we perhaps say, "Differently narrow"?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Nov 2002 5:29 pm

I think Robert Randolph is a fantastic musician, and I love his stuff. He has clearly taken us out of our box, and is taking steel guitar in a new direction.

But it is hard to tell where it will lead. Imagine for a moment that he is playing the same blues/gospel/rock style on any other instrument. No matter how great he plays, where would this go in this day of punk/rap/pop? Will it go any further with him playing steel than if he played regular guitar or keyboard?

Now imagine you are a kid that wants to play like him. If the kid wanted to play regular guitar, he could go pick up a Fender Squire for $150 bucks, a cheap amp, a chord book or video, and get started. A keyboard costs a little more, but is reachable. But how is he going to get hold of a $3000 13-string pedal steel? We know this problem is not insurmountable, but the kid wouldn't know that. It's hard to see how the masses are going to relate to this.

It might be that Robert influences other steel players more than the general public. Certainly he is an influence on the other Sacred Steelers. But outside of that circle, how many steelers are going to convert their E9 or C6 or 12-U neck to E7? You see the problem?

Robert is so good, and so young, he will definitely be around a long time, getting even better as he goes. But who knows where he will take this? And who knows who he will take with him? I'm just glad I'm around to watch this phenomenon happen. I'll stop worrying when he shows up in an MTV video.

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 19 Nov 2002 5:39 pm

Does RR play with a flatpick?

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 19 Nov 2002 6:35 pm

Nope, Robert uses finger picks (he, like most Sacred Steel players, uses a fairly stiff thumb pick). He has a right hand like a machine gun. There's nobody as fast as him at this style, except Chuck Campbell and an army of kids in the House of God Churches.

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www.tyack.com
[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 19 November 2002 at 07:15 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Nov 2002 6:59 pm

imagine you are a kid that wants to play like him. If the kid wanted to play regular guitar, he could go pick up a Fender Squire for $150 bucks, a cheap amp, a chord book or video, and get started. A keyboard costs a little more, but is reachable.

I suspect that those musicians who follow in Randolph's steps will already be proficient on some other instrument. How many of us played something else first before we took up the steel?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Nov 2002 7:22 pm

If I understand correctly, I believe that in the House of God churches, if you aspire to become a steel player, you must first come up the ranks as a... drummer! Hence, the percussive attacks and approach to playing steel.

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 19 Nov 2002 7:49 pm

I agree with many of the points raised by David Doggett. Sam Ash is supposed to be a Carter Starter dealer, but nobody who works there has even heard of a Carter Starter. They don't sell any lap steels either. Any young musician who expressed a desire to play like RR would probably be directed by the average guitar store salesman to a Dunlop slide tube and a fuzz box. A group of young musicians with PSG's emulating RR seems to be a real long shot to me. When they figure out that they can approximate it for a fraction of the price with a slide tube & a fuzz box, at most they might spring for some kind of lap steel.

Hey Dave, any relation to Bill?

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 19 Nov 2002 8:16 pm

Why wasn't any attention paid to Joe Wright
by the major labels? Joe has been blowing the doors off rock/blues steel for years before this kid even came on the scene. Seems like a double standard. I'll take Joe Wright any day of the week for rock/blues steel. It doesn't seem right. I think this kid has got alot to learn.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 19 November 2002 at 08:18 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Nov 2002 10:33 pm

Sam Ash is supposed to be a Carter Starter dealer, but nobody who works there has even heard of a Carter Starter.

It's probably different in every store and in every town, but the last time I looked (which was over a year ago) the Sam Ash store in West Hollywood had one promenently displayed in the front window.

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 20 Nov 2002 1:34 am

Mike,

None of the guys I know in the Pa/NJ stores had ever heard of it. They found vague references to it in the "system". They didn't seem to have any expectations of any ever being stocked in our area. About 3 years ago, one of the local Sam Ash's had a couple of those "rolled aluminum" bodied Sierras. In fact I tuned 'em up for them. When they finally sold 'em, they said they had no further plans to stock PSG's. And they have not, unfortunately. I could use the students.

Re: the Carter Starter, actually it's a moot point...... with it's non-interchangable copedent system, I don't think that it would accomodate the E7 set up.

If a legion of guys show up nationwide with 12 string PSG's tuned to E7, I guess I'll eat crow. But I believe Dave Dogget has most accurately assessed the situation.

And maybe I should add to my previous statement: "Any young musician who expressed a desire to play like RR would probably be directed by the average guitar store salesman in our local area to a Dunlop slide tube and a fuzz box."

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 20 Nov 2002 3:15 am

i like Robert Randolph and what he is doing.
he's definitly bringin' the Steel Onward.
First of all, the House of God church is the major element contributin'to the phenomena.
No Church, No Robert.
as for the Army of kids that Dan refers to,
you've got "the New Era" right there.

we'll wait for them to hit big, so we can know who they are ?
in the meantime the Army of kids are honin' there laps steels and surely gettin'good.
i would love to go listen to 'em if i were in the 'hood.
Do these kids start on lap steels ?
i do find it difficult to imagine the youngsters who want to play like Robert, gettin' Mom+Dad to buy em' a U13
no Dad, that's not a U boat !

As for those who aspire to play like Robert and who are not in the House of God well...
i'm sure many will do like the rest of us
Start on a Guitar - slide and all, and Learn somethin'.
let's just make sure somebody gives 'em a Steel Bar right quick ! Hey Sam U got any ?
i'm glad to see the success that Robert is gettin'cause he deserves it/as well as those who accompany him too.
May the Lord watch upon him as he goes forward into a career of Stardom.
i'm rootin for that New Era Steel Army !

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Steel what?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Nov 2002 8:36 am

I read in one of his interviews, a while back, that if things kept going real good for him, that he might get out of playing so much...and get more into the "producing" end of the business. He didn't elaborate on exactly what type of stuff he would like to produce, though.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 20 Nov 2002 11:12 am

Hey, Harry, if I'm related to Bill Doggett, nobody in my family speaks about it much, us having different complexions and all. I'm from North Mississippi and am vaguely kin to hundreds of Doggetts from Virginia to California.

Anyhow, my day job is just down the road from Blue Bell in Plymouth Meeting. Drop in at the Mermaid Inn in Chestnut Hill some first Tuesday and join in on our country jam (acoustic blues 2nd Tues., bluegrass 3rd Tues.).

About the music store problem. At the old Zaph's on Ridge Pike (that recently changed hands), they said they got in two pedal steels once and couldn't sell them for years - so never again. There are a very few places in Nashville and Texas, etc. where you can walk in and try out several pedal steels.

After the drums, the young Sacred Steelers will go to a lap steel and maybe an old Sho-Bud Maverick (in the '97 Sacred Steel CD, 15-year old Antjuan Edwards is in a photo playing a Maverick). Maybe Carter could re-rig a Starter to an E7 setup. I'm sure with a little work and a few coat hangers you could rig an old Maverick to a passable Sacred Steel tuning (I still play my 1970 Maverick E9 with a coat hanger for a pull rod on LKL). So with a little help from an older steeler, a kid can find something to get started on. But that's the point. If you don't know other steelers to help you get started, it's dang near impossible. Even if the average music store gets a pedal steel, they don't know how to keep it in tune and demonstrate it. So not only are these contraptions dang hard to play, it's dang near impossible to try one out and buy it.

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Piece of kitchen cabinet and aircraft aluminum with some vibrating wires and levers, amplified with electromagnetism and electronics, plucked with artificial metal finger nails with pitch controlled by a sliding chrome dildo. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 20 November 2002 at 11:14 AM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 20 Nov 2002 11:17 am

I figured this post would provoke some response... I think we're missing the point if we think every "kid" who gets exposed to Robert R through national label money and promo will want to play "Sacred style on a U-13"... In the late 60's many thousands of kids took up guitar (and Les Paul prices started their meteoric rise) when Mike Bloomfield hit the scene with the Electric Flag. But most of those kids went on to other music than Harmonica-heavy Chicago blues. And even today, a very sizable number of top pro guitarists cite their first exposure to Kiss as the one reason they took up guitar. NONE of them are in bands wearing makeup and ten inch heels, and most went on to create music of much more depth and substance than their inspirations- (apologies to the legions of Kiss fans lurking here on the forum!). My point being that ANY exposure for steel guitar should generate interest, new players, new styles and opportunities, and Robert's deal with Warners will probably reach MILLIONS of ears- hopefully really stirring the gene pool for future steelers- and the many byproducts of increased demand for instruments, instruction, recordings, etc. We live in interesting times. As far as other worthy players not getting the same recognition, well, the record industry has never been based on the merit system! But some record exec has seen the reaction Robert gets from the PACKED houses he's playing to, and recognized potential for mass appeal. I'd have to mention the dedication and sacrifice it takes to mount an endless touring schedule and all the commitment to recording and promotion that Robert has made himself... I can't think of any other steeler doing that on a national basis. In recent interviews Robert has indicated that some of his first production plans are to get some of the other Sacred Steelers national exposure through his label deal. And many of those guys play NON pedal or lap steel-not a fancy Universal multistring... Should be fascinating![This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 20 November 2002 at 11:22 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 20 Nov 2002 11:25 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:

Think about how a lot of kids first got exposed to the blues through Eric Clapton and/or the Rolling Stones, and went on to discover the original artists like Robert Johnson and Howling Wolf. I think the same thing will happen here.

Big difference here, Mike. Robert's roots don't go back to country and swing, they go back to the very obscure House of God traditions. A new player insprired by Robert Randolph's music isn't likely to "graduate" to the Nashville or Texas styles.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Nov 2002 3:01 pm

And don't forget...the more "beginners" we have...the more "experienced" the rest of us will sound! (LOL!)

So there's is an up-side to this, regardless of the outcome.

Mark Zinns · Post by **Mark Zinns** » 20 Nov 2002 3:56 pm

I originally got hooked by Joe Goldmark's first album and Bobby Black's playing on "Stealing at the 7-11". I then became interested in the earlier artists and the roots of pedal steel. I think national exposure can only help. I guess there are alot of opinions about what direction the steel guitar should go in, but I think more players will be agood thing.

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 21 Nov 2002 8:10 am

I was recently in the Sam Ash store on 48th Street in NYC...I'm pretty sure I saw a Carter Starter set up there, gathering dust in a corner.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 21 Nov 2002 8:44 am

Last time I played a gig in NYC I went by Sam Ash, set up and tuned the Carter they had there and showed a few things to a couple of salesmen, like how they could relate the basic "no pedals" and "pedals down" positions to the main barre chord locations on 6 string guitar. In no time they were jostling for a seat to play around-like most people, guitar salesmen are generally unwilling to demonstrate a lack of knowledge/familiarity with an instrument and so of course can't communicate any enthusiasm to prospective customers. A little education supported by the manufacturers might go a long way there. I could suggest any teacher types living near a major retailer might offer their services for a demo/clinic, most of the stores advertise those on a regular basis. You might interest some new steelers, pick up some new students, and develop a better relationship with a dealer for a couple hours of your time.