The Steel Guitar Forum

I've seen posts come up about steel players not getting hired because they don't play other instruments. It's seems obvious to me that if the gig calls for steel on only a few songs, and say, rhythm guitar on others, it wouldn't make since for the band to hire a steel player and a guitar player. It's a personal choice whether to learn another instrument or not. But I will tell you it has come in handy for me. I know it has also come in handy for players such as Gary Morse. For years, I had seen him only play pedal and lap steel with a myriad of bands, then, there he is playing steel , banjo and guitar with Dwight. Good deal.

It does sadden me when great players are turned down for gigs due to the fact that they don't play anything but steel. But players get turned down for reasons far worse. " I'm sorry, your'e too old" " overweight" "hair is too long" etc. I still think we all need to do our own thing that makes us happy, and hope the rest of the world appreciates us. Or you can work at convincing them we are worthy. I choose to do both.
I personally enjoy the challenge of playing different instruments. Banjo, guitar, dobro, mando, bass, dulcimer etc. I sure as heck don't play them all that well, but sure have fun doing it. I even have an instrument that I don't know the name of, but i'll give it a whirl. Plus, in certain situations it may fatten your paycheck up with doubles and triples. In one orchestra gig, I played five instruments and cashed in.
I'm not saying you should have to learn something new, it's up to you. Some of my favorite players only play one instrument (as far as I know). To each his own.
Good luck to all,
Dave Ristrim

Dave,
Do you think people who double (or triple) should get paid more ? What's the industry standard for this, anyway ?
Interesting.
-John

I always thought I play a number of instruments because I couldn't figure out what I wanted to be when I grow up. My axes have been drums (teen only), piano, guitar, organ, synth/sampler, bass, and now steel. I've played them all at various times in bands except for steel (well, two times on psg so far). I just find it more interesting to play an assortment. They say a jack of all trades is a master of none, but I think one can have a main instrument and polish it up to the best of one's abilities and still have a few other instruments on the side. Personally, I'm a virtuoso on nothing (well, maybe on kazoo) but probably best at piano.

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<font size=-1>Bill L | My steel page | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?</font>

Nice try, John! (But, it don't work that way.) You see, the reason they want you to play everything is so they can save money! Paying you double, or even 50% more would almost be unheard of...around here, anyway. You might get an extra $10-$20 if you really pressed them, but the whole idea behind the "utility player" thing is they want the cheap way out. I have nothing against the players, they're just trying to stay employed. Guys like Sid Hudson do a great job at steel and lead, and have done it for years. I'm not slamming the players...just the cheapskates that hire them, and want to pinch every penny, and chisel other good players out of their livelihood.

John, as far as road gigs go, doubles and triples don't usually net you any extra dough. Although the gig opportunities are more prevalent. But in recording and other union contracted gigs such as orchestras, you get paid a pecentage more for doubling and a smaller percentage for tripling and so on. I think it starts at 20%, then 15%. And I do think the multi- instrumentalist should get a bonus. I had to spend extra time to learn the instrument, extra money to buy it, extra muscle to haul it, etc. Besides it's like having a carpenter come over, and he fixes your plumbing and electrical too. I'd pay him more, otherwise you might have to hire three different people. I hope this is helpful.
Dave

Well if the band is "just" a country band....then it would require "just" a steel player......but since there is only 3 of those type bands left.....then yes it is important to play several instruments to cover all styles of music that is being played from all the acts out there....what ever they want to call it they are playing. Money is always an issue; when it comes to the headliners and management. If they can stick more money in their pockets with less players.......by all means that is what they are gunna do.....cause it is the sole inspiration for doing what they do in the first place....and does not have one thing to do with the music....or they would line it up properly......but....."NOT". So I concur with Donny of course and will add one more thing..........Na.....never mind....it's all fine what anyone wants to do.....it's just I know what I'm gunna do....and that's all that matters.
Ricky

Donny, I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. In live situations like I've found myself in, a utility player is many times necessary. I play about half steel and half acoustic with the Sons. The songs I play steel on, need steel, the others need acoustic guitar and no steel. What would the "Sons" need to do, hire me to play steel on six songs, and then sit around doing nothing? I play banjo on a couple songs with them also. I don't think there would be enough room on the bus for all the people they have to hire if each one did only one thing. Oh yeah I also sing harmony too. That's one more guy.
Thinking back to all the bar bands I've played in, some of the songs were country with steel, and then we would do hard rock and anything else we could think of. I personally would hate playing steel on Thin Lizzy and Beatles ( if you trying to sound like the record) songs if you know what I mean. But I do like to pick a electric guitar and rock out!
I don't think it is fair to bash the people hiring utility players. Some of my best friends hire utility players
Dave<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dave Ristrim on 01 May 2002 at 10:16 AM.]</p></FONT>

Dave,
It sounds like you do a great job and should be commended.
I have their last cd and it's great! I'll be looking for the new one with you on it.
Theresa

Thanks Dave, Donny, Ricky and all for your replies.
I know the union rules dictate paying slightly more to instrumentalists for doubling, but as we all know, not every situation is a union one.
Thanks again... interesting topic, particularly for us "utility guys".
-John

Well Dave, I certainly see your point...

<SMALL>What would the "Sons" need to do, hire me to play steel on six songs, and then sit around doing nothing?</SMALL>

...you see, these types of things are insidious in nature. They start harmlessly, but then once the idea gets moving, it keeps right on moving...like a big stone rolling down a hill.

Let's save some money, after all...steel probably wouldn't "fit" in certain songs, as you say. We need the different sounds, but not all the time. It's a good thing.

Understand, I'm not picking on you, or anyone else in particular. I'm just trying to make a point. Most of us aren't concerned about other people working, we only want assure that we keep working. So, sooner or later, corners are cut, and the ones who still have a job are happy...while the ones who are out of a job are just forgotten.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, and maybe these principles of mine are outdated. You see, I think that if someone wants something (like a band), they should have to buy the whole package, and not be allowed to cut corners (or cut out band members) just to save money.

Now before I go, perhaps I can illustrate my views in another simple way. I have a CD in front of me now that I bought recently. Now suppose...just suppose, I really didn't care for these four songs..."Red Baron", "School Days", "New Country", and "People Get Ready". Maybe I could work something out with the artist...have him "leave these songs out" of my copy. That way I'd have a little less music, but...I'd have saved some money!

See my point?

My intent on playing Steel this time around was to not tell anyone I played guitar or sang. That didn't work. Although the band has a great tele' player , I now play guitar and sing several songs as well. There are a couple of tunes where we do these dueling Tele' deals and that is always fun ...so...what the heck..At least I can look at my steel while playing the Tele' ! I have always doubled on Steel and Guitar and now and again on bass as well..I guess it's not going to change..As far as getting extra money ....The way I'm presently playing I'm greatful to get any money !
TP

TPrior/SteelGuitarHomesite
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 01 May 2002 at 02:33 PM.]</p></FONT>

Donny, I see your point... but
The big difference there is that a band leader is buying raw materials in order to put together a finished product for resale (to a club owner). That doesn't make it right, I know, but it's a factor. In fact, he doesn't save any money... he still makes the same amount he would otherwise, he just has a higher-quality product.
I can see both sides. I know the sound man and I are always the last ones to leave the gig, as it takes me alot of time to pack up a complicated rig. The sax player and I get the same pay, and he's pulling out of the parking lot at 2:05, while I haven't even begun to wind cords yet. That kinda ticks me off sometimes.
But, on the other hand, the club owner is the keeper of the "bottom line". Two weeks ago, a 5 piece group I play with was let go from a club because they were too expensive. Next weekend I went in to find two pinheads with flatops being backed up by a drum machine and everything (bass, piano, strings, etc.) on a backup tape had replaced us. Now that's depressing.

And that's what you get for having musical integrity.
It's a tricky one. If the general public was the least bit discriminating, perhaps this dillema wouldn't exist.
-John <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by John Steele on 01 May 2002 at 03:10 PM.]</p></FONT>

John, thanks for your words. Your comment about the "2 pinheads on flat-top backed up by a drum machine" that replaced your group shows what happens when this type of thing starts. Soon, they too (two? ) will be replaced by one guy with a karaoke setup. After all, music is music...right?

I guess it's nobody's fault, it's just a sign of the times. Wonderful, isn't it? That's why I've considered selling all my music stuff, and opening an antique shop. That's probably the only way I can be "out of style", and successful and happy at the same time.

(Wonder how the "Riders In The Sky" do it?)

I got my foot in the door with big band playing , with my guitar.
Although Iloved my steel guitar, I did it.

I could read the charts, etc. They said well ,maybe you can play a couple of hawaiian tunes.

First thing you know, they wrote some Alvino Rey, arrangements, he was popular at the time, and of course I played them. They liked that!

I always had plenty of jobs and made more than standard money. So I would say , The more you can do, the more valuable you are in a band.
I used to sing lead and harmony too. I still got to play enough steel to make me happy. FWIW....al

I think if you don't want to have to worry about somebody taking your job, you should be the drummer but then they have some pretty good drum machines these days too.
I have a steel player friend in England that plays in a live band with an electric drummer and I believe a bass player. Anyway these guys play like this all the time. All of their songs are tracks that they play to. The third instrument could be a guitar but there is only three I'm pretty sure. He tells me it's like this everywhere over there. I've never had to play with tracks or even an electric drummer in a live situation. I guess this eliminates sit-ins.
Anyway if you don't like the utility players maybe you'd like the tracks more!
Why wouldn't playing more than one instrument be a good thing? I've played with some of these guys and you never know what he's going to pull out for the next tune. Amazes me. I've been playing a non-pedal steel on the gig for a while now along with my pedal steel and have taken up the Dobro for a few tunes as well. As long as I sit down and really learn the tune I can get through it OK and the tune is better off for it I think. It's a lot more to carry around but you can give your tunes a lot more of what is supposed to be there instead of playing a pedal steel riff where a Dobro riff is supposed to be or maybe you could play a harmonica. Just listen to the songs you hear on the radio. There's everything in there and the more you sound like the record the better.

I understand your point Donny. I would also say (it's been said before) that there are fewer bands out there doing "trad" country music which steel is/was a big part of. There are still some great ones, but I won't go into names. Besides, there is no turning back once you've been hired to play steel and let it slip out to the band leader that you can play OBS on the fiddle too. Try to get hired just playing steel after that.
Dave

It's supply and demand. Musicians are a dime a dozen so the pay is low. The fewer people in the band the bigger your share. Most of us would rather make $100 apiece w/ a four piece than $65 in a six piece band. Multi-tasking is everywhere! I used to play steel, electric and accoustic gtrs, sing harmony and share lead vocals in one band. It was way to much work hauling, tuning, switching and having to stay sharp at all of it. Now I prefer just steel. But when your looking for work it's a big plus to at least double.
The worst part for me is I don't have the time to practice and stay sharp on two or more instruments. One or the other is going to suffer. Just my humble opinion and my aren't we being nice today!

You young guys don't read this.Could be hazardous to your careers. But if I'd wanted to play guitar I would have.I'd rather sell used cars than be a utility man. I love to play most all styles of music.But I want even play dobro.I could half a$$ play one if I wanted to.But for me ,if I can't do it good.I'm just not going to do it.I do wish I could play jazz piano.But it's to late for me to learn and I hear it don't pay that well either. I know several utility players that play 3 or 4 instruments very well.And that's cool.However most just seem to get by,on steel at least.Sorry for the rant.I know the utility thing is the way to go these days.But I guess I'm just spoiled.I'm just glad I got started in a time when steel players could still get paid for playing steel.Here again guys. This is just the way I feel.No hard feelings I hope. EDIT BTW.You young guys that can sing.Work on it.If you play good steel and can sing so so, and are not hung up on one type of music.You'll always have work. ----bb <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 02 May 2002 at 12:09 AM.]</p></FONT>

Doubling is fun!

I started on Mandolin when I was in high school and stayed mostly with bluegrass till I went in the Army and got into lead guitar and a little lap steel. My playing sort of evolved with both instruments. My first steel only gig was in the 70's and I didn't like it as I didn't care for the lead guitarist's playing. I always liked to play it all myself. For many years I played steel with my guitar strapped on and went back and forth between the two as I use fingerpicks on both instruments. Someone mentioned not being as good on one instrument as another. I've always preached scales and not licks. I play steel, lead, mandolin, dobro, & banjo and although I'm by no means the best on any of these instruments I could take any one of them to a gig and play any song we do in any key on any of these instruments. I love being a multi-instrumentalist. When I was playing full time I never had a night off. I currently play lead guitar in a band called the Legends because we have a great steelman (Larry Sutphin) and do some fill in gigs on steel with other bands plus play bass with a jazz/pop band called the Redcoats. Playing other instruments has kept me playing gigs and not sitting at home everynight crying about where all the jobs went........

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

While growing up learning steel I heard some guys doubling on guitar and steel and generally I wasn't impressed, as it sounded like they had compromised both. I vowed not to double or sing once I started learning steel and I stuck to it, mostly because of the difficulty of the instrument and the concentration needed. It help me get my chops together quickly as I could concentrate fully, but I sure got a lot of funny looks from bandleaders when they asked if I played any other instruments and said no. It probably hurt me work-wise over the years.

I only play the steel guitar. The bands I work for are usually five piece, the one I am presently in has six members. Most songs we do have steel in them as we try to keep it as close to cover as we can and a little steel is added to songs that don't have it. I have read several posts where well known steel players have a problem finding jobs after having worked with famous artists. Not to be sarcastic, but does ones attitude and ego interfere with being hired and not the fact that they don't play multiple instruments? Joe

I have always envied those who were able to play more than one instrument. It has been my observation that a player is better when he can play regular guitar AND the steel.

Sure wish I could,

carl