The Steel Guitar Forum

Lloyd e-mailed me this profound statement which I must pass on as I am In 100% agreement. Lloyd states: "Without tone(and it isn't subjective)there will never be a complete player.Tone requires intelligence,thoughtfullness and maturity. When I hear good tone I listen because I know this is a player who cares.It is something that can't be taught but instead comes from inside the musician".Lloyd

Lloyd Green, You are a genius!!!
YOUR tone proves it!

Bobbe Seymour <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 04 March 2002 at 04:35 PM.]</p></FONT>

Does anyone want to disagree with him? Not me! "Tone is not subjective". Stated by Lloyd himself, the king of tone. (the other king of tone!) I think this needs to be read over and over until it is 100% understood.
There is a good and bad in tone.(naturally)
Bobbe

That means there IS hope for me. Thanks for that post Bobbe and Lloyd.

Rick

OK! I agree!... Now!...for those with tone that wreaks...and discounting the right hand, guitar brand, pickup selection, which amp does Lloyd prefer and what are his amp settings?
I like my tone 90% of the time and don't know why the weather, atmosphere, smoke, barometric pressure, floor covering, table clothes, body fat ratios, sound man, etc, likes to play mind and ear games with me?
Dennis
PS...I think steroid injections to the fingers would help? Fat fingers, fat sound?<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 04 March 2002 at 04:54 PM.]</p></FONT>

I'm glad I got to see that e-mail "in person"!!

Can somebody define 'Tone' for me? I'm serious! I think that there are lot of different ideas about what 'Tone' is. What are Lloyd and Bobbe talking about here?

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Timbre rObert! Quality, very pleasing qualitys,those that can never be gotten tired of, the sound that never grows irritating, a sound you develop a craving for, A tone that taste developes over many years of listening. Tone is appreciated by players that have been very discriminating over many years of being critical of what they are listening to. Not just a note, not just a pitch but a tone filled with many other quieter beautiful over tones, Rich, fat, warm,colorful,sexually satisfying, woops, maybe I've gone a little far, but I think you know what I'm saying, Want me to go on? Yes, there is a big difference in good and what we can percieve as bad in the timbre, quality,TONE.
bOb, thanks for asking!

Bobby Lee, I can't define tone (that is, put it into words) but I know it when I hear it.

Describing tone is kinda like trying to tell someone how chocolate ice cream tastes;___it's an experience.

Rick<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 04 March 2002 at 07:11 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 04 March 2002 at 08:47 PM.]</p></FONT>

Guess you might say, The quest for tone is a life long quest that should never be put aside, you do and you might as well "hang it up". The older a player gets with his playing , the more important tone becomes. Like Lloyd says, A player that takes pride in his tone will get my attention(not in those words exactly, but close).
Bobbe

Rick, I just put it into words! Ha! Ha!

I get the picture!! It's like Shania dancing in your room covered with chocolate ice cream??? Perfect tone! Silky highs, soft mids, smooth bottom!

mmmmmmmmm.... Ice Cream......

Thanks for sharing Mr.Sizemore.

I would think that "GOOD TONE" is not a universal constant. If a player has developed a Tone he likes, he's satisfied, and his musical voice has intergrity.

Another may not like that Tone.

That's OK.

Yes Dennis, as opposed to bOb or me doing the same thing,which is prettier? Her or us?
Anyway Bobby Lee,This was a great question you posed. It seems many very good players and many good builders of fine guitars don't know either. This is a topic that needs much delving into by many more people than have in the past. Builders need to use there ears more than their eyes when designing a new guitar. Don't worry about "new tech" space- age construction,what it looks like or how light it is or what color your wife likes, Worry about how it sounds. It seems as though new builders today don't care or even give tone a thought, it's just "wow, magnesium rods,carbonfibre necks, WOW, how 'bout them titanium legs!!! Boy, these pedals sure phush reil gud! You talk to them and they never even mention tone, what the guitar will sound like, they don't care and probably don't know the difference anyway, they will reliy on sales to players that don't know either! Why doesn't someone design a new guitar that sounds great! Don't say it can't be done.
Just an opinion from the "other side" of the coin.

Bobbe

Maybe some of you agree with this and maybe not.I was listening to country radio the other day,and couldnt believe the steel ride that I heard.I believe it was a Shania song come on over,and the steel sounded like the guy was pumping the volume pedal for all it was worth with about 90 percent chorus.I believe that good volume pedal control is alot of the sound also.Honestly to me it sounded like crapola.

Joey Ace, remember your statement in twenty years. Your taste will change by then. Agreed? How much has it changed since you have been playing? How long have you been playing? How discriminating are you? You sound like a discriminating player. You do good posts anyway. The more years you concentrait on tone, the more important it will become to you. Joey,you have posed a great question in that a great tone doesn't have to sound exactly like a different sounding great tone, but there is such a thing as the majority of people agreeing that there is such a thing as bad tone (or a good tone) The old,Andy Devine as opposed to Vaughn Monroe voice(I didn't say I was young). For the younger guys, Bob Dillon as opposed to Perry Como, Skeeter Davis to Anita Kerr, well you know. Good statement though Joey.
('yall know who I am)
J. Rittland Krandalmyer III

And Buddy's tone is different than Lloyd's, but Shazam to both!!! Chocolate ice cream just oozes from those guitars and squirts from them amps.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 04 March 2002 at 06:56 PM.]</p></FONT>

Richard Plummer, I have never agreed with you more. Good volume tech. is so very important also.This is another topic though that falls under the heading of "execution of playing", not tone. You can tell how inexperienced a player is by the volume pedal "pumping". Yes Richard, youv'e hit another topic of intrest. Good luck on your new Emmons, You'll love tone!
J, stanley Scattergood, esq.

Dennis, your making me hungry!! I gotta' go!

Sir Robert Eatesalott (Knight, 1st class)

We all have Tone. Mine gets better the more and longer I play steel. But it's faaar from being as sweet to the ear as Lloyds...and many others whom I won't even begin to name.

If I keep playing my steel, I know it will get better, but when you don't start playing the steel until you're 65 years old, I also know it will never be Pro quality. Even after a lifetime of playing standard guitar.

But i'm satisfied with my tone, because when I started, I don't know for sure what you'd call that noise I was makin. But it's beginning to sound like it might be a steel guitar.

Bob. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 04 March 2002 at 07:22 PM.]</p></FONT>

My tone is kinda like chocolate ice cream, but with nuts.

Rick

Bobbe and Lloyd, two guys that know alot.(!)
Lloyd says tone cannot be taught. Bobbe says there is no alternative to learning about tone. (except bad tone)
If tone can be learned but not taught, you have nobody's conclusions but your own to base your opinions on... that makes it subjective. But tone is not subjective.
I think this is an interesting thread, but...the semantics are making it hard for me to tune out the beats.
Sometimes I think the guy that nailed it was Joe Jackson, when he said:
Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."
-John

Tone is timbre. Sounds good to me! But what do y'all think are the individual components of tone, in order of importance? Here's an example:

Pick angle
Distance from picking point to changer
Muting technique
Vibrato
Choice of pickup
Gauge of strings
Mass of guitar body
etc.

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<font size=-1>Bill L | My steel page | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?</font>

Rick,
Are you trying to say you have male tone?.

I ain't gonna sign that.

Lloyd Green says concerning tone:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>
"......It is something that can't be taught but instead comes from inside the musician".</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And i will contend that a person does not have to be an accomplished musician to indentify good tone.

Sorry I was off topic in my original post.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 06 March 2002 at 08:07 PM.]</p></FONT>