Steel and TOO much Fiddle

Bob Miano · Post by **Bob Miano** » 21 Nov 2001 8:48 pm

Ok, here's the situation. I joined up with
a new band in New Jersey (mostly original country looking to do more than just the club scene). 7 People in the band.....including piano, guitar, pedal steel & fiddle. In the beginning I thought it really had potential, but after a few months and several rehearsals.....I find the fiddle player can't stop playing. Never knows when NOT to play. I had made a general comment to the band about watching when the instrumentalists play....thought that would work but to no avail.....then I actually showed this guy he was playing over the guitar solo and over the vocalist at times....and allthough he quieted down a bit,
he just kept stepping on solos and licks.
Apparently, he has no concept of a "band" and
how it works.....but he does play well.....
just too darn much. Any thoughts as to what else I could say to this guy before I back off from the band??? After all, if it's not going to sound right, why bother !!
Thanks,
Bob

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 21 Nov 2001 8:58 pm

but he does play well

No he doesn't.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 21 Nov 2001 9:02 pm

About 10 years ago, I played rhythm guitar in a small rock band. The lead guitar player always played cliche pentatonic solos throughout the ENTIRE song, including through the verses and choruses.

A suggestion would be to record your practise session, make copies and send it home with all band members for 'self-evaluation'. Musicians tend to be hyper-critical of their performance when hearing the playback.

The fiddler may come to the same conclusion that you have come to, if he hears it in 'third person'.

Best of luck.

kyle reid · Post by **kyle reid** » 21 Nov 2001 9:19 pm

I used to to run in to this alot, still occasionally do if I take a gig with a different group, what I do is put my bar down, & cross my arms & tell the player in question, "Let me know when its my turn" If they have any savvy, they usually get the picture, Works somtimes for me! Also I've said "Lets make a deal" I promise not to play when your playing, if you do the same for me! Worth a Try? kr

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Nov 2001 9:29 pm

Oh, man. This is a pet peeve of mine. I've had to fire four fiddlers from my band for exactly the same infraction. They just don't know when to tuck it under their arm and shut up! It's maddening. I tried all kinds of things to corral them, but to no avail. Maybe if you got a video of a good Texas band, like the Time Warp Tophands, and show them how Snuffy Elmore just plays his fills and solos and the rest of the time just tucks it under his arm and smiles... MAYBE they'll get the idea. But don't count on it. Fiddlers seem to think they get paid by the lick. Which reminds me: I had one who told me that he really thought he wasn't earning his keep if he didn't play all the time. I told him I'd pay him more to play less. That impressed him. So... maybe you can cut a side deal with your fiddler for playing less? Either cash or a few drinks at the bar...? On second thought, maybe the cash is a better idea...

Jimmy Youngblood · Post by **Jimmy Youngblood** » 22 Nov 2001 12:01 am

Get a deck of cards and play solitare on the back neck!

He may (or may not!) get the message.

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chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 22 Nov 2001 12:26 am

I think it's "Small Instrument Syndrome".

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 22 Nov 2001 2:23 am

Tell him He would be more of an effective player if his fiddle was not heard at all; until it's time for him to play(unless ya'll are playing parts). Like Tom Brumley told me once....."When it's time to play; PLAY the S.O.B; and when it's not time to play; DON'T play the S.O.B".
Effectiveness is the sign of a professional; and the other is very Garage Bandish Amatureistic.
Or you can tell him..."if you don't shut the he!! up; Ricky Davis is gunna whoop your a$$". And I'll come up there and personally do it for ya pal...

Ricky
[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 22 November 2001 at 02:24 AM.]

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 22 Nov 2001 3:41 am

Have you considered the use of a .357 Magnum on him yet? (or,at least,on his fiddle?)

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Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 Nov 2001 4:53 am

It must be "fiddler's syndrome" as most I've come across seem to be loud.

I played with one years ago in the Washington DC area (Hugh Fazenbaker) that did know when to play and when not to play, he used a foot volume control. Hugh was a sound engineer for NBC in Washington which probably helped.

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 22 Nov 2001 5:23 am

Well if he plays in tune, thats not TOO bad. About 2 out of 3 fiddle players here in TX play out of tune. Snuffy Elmore ain't one of em. He's about the best around here next to J. Gimble maybe. But I am going to have to suffer through some of that this Sat. This guy I've been working with is stuck on this one piano player who just walks and talks over everybody. Truth is, its their gig and if they want to overplay, the way I see it, I have to work LESS for the same money. They'll get the idea eventually if they see a steelman just sitting with his arms crossed. It will work. Given the other player in question is human. Being human is optional for Drummers.
Happy Holidays from North Texas.

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 22 Nov 2001 7:11 am

Have you ever played a gig under the above conditions and of coarse just "set back" rather than getting in on the "goat ropin" and afterwards have someone comment that the steel player didn't know or do much to help the band ?

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 22 Nov 2001 8:01 am

Talk it over with the band and if everybody agrees, each get a can of silly string and everytime he won't quit each one spray him at the same time. Either he'll quit or straighten up. If that don't work call Ricky!

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 22 Nov 2001 8:33 am

At the recent steel show sponsored by Frank Caruso in Waltham, Mass, Joel Glassman was the fiddle player in the backup band and I was impressed to say the least.

Not only was Mr. Glassman a talented fiddle player, he knew when to back off and get back in and complimant the other players in the band.

I think Jim Cohen will agree as Jim performed at the steel show. [This message was edited by Len Amaral on 22 November 2001 at 08:35 AM.]

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 22 Nov 2001 8:40 am

Fiddle has historically been a (the!) lead instrument from the first days it landed in this country. Old habits and ways of looking at things die hard.

Don't get mad. Get even. Just knock his soundpost over and he'll sound like he's playing through cheesecloth.

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 22 Nov 2001 9:32 am

Our band leader once brought in a fiddle to "fill up" our sound. After the first night of rehersal, after the fiddlist had left, he asked for our opinions. I told him point blank,"hire him and I'm outa here!" The lead guitar seconded the nomination. Fiddle has never been brought up again. There ARE some tremendously talented fiddlist out there, just too darned few & far between.
Roger

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 22 Nov 2001 9:37 am

I never thought the day would come. It'll probably never happen again. I'd better buy a lottery ticket. I actually agree with everything that's been said so far.

All anybody has to do is to pick one song on the radio and just take 3 minutes to listen to it. Pick an Alan Jackson song. When the guitar is featured do you hear anyone else besides the acoustic, bass and drums? When the steel is featured do you hear anyone else? When the piano, or fiddle or (fill in the blank) is featured is anyone else being a distraction in the background? Here's a hint: the answer is NO. Granted, probably the main reason why is the final mixing of the song. But on the bandstand, it's up to every member of the band to play together and mix themselves.

Of course, we as steel players need to set an example too. If it's not our turn we also need to clam up.

One final thought: my experience has shown that you could take all of the above comments and substitute "saxophone" or "harmonica" for "fiddle" and also be right on the money.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 22 Nov 2001 9:48 am

Every country song does not need a violin! Once again I refer you to "Apartment #9" by Tammy Wynette, one of my all-time country favorites EVER!

Scott Moon · Post by **Scott Moon** » 22 Nov 2001 10:11 am

Well...I been playin fiddle for 24 years now and I have never been accused of overplaying...but if I did, I would want someone to tell me! I think you should just tell him to chill a little and if he is any kind of musician he will listen and understand, and not get offended. I kind of enjoy tucking my fiddle under my arm and smiling alot...that way I can watch the steel player! Johnny Gimble once said "if you are too busy, you won't be too busy".

By the way...Ricky Davis...you played your A$$ off the other night..hope I didn't play over you!!! LMAO!!

Scott

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 22 Nov 2001 11:05 am

Johnny Gimble, my favorite fiddler!

Gary Lee

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 22 Nov 2001 12:51 pm

Scott you "ARE" the perfect Fiddle player my friend. A true professional you are and I really enjoyed sittin in on Loessbergs '64 Emmons(which I've never played before)(string spacing;pedal action;...etc..I can go on and on

...ha..
But I just simply love to come out on Tuesdays(my only night off) and hear you guys...> A true Texas Honky Tonk 4/4 shufflin'...steel-a-whalin'...fiddle-a-sawin'......and the BEST Country singer on the planet right now named Justin Trevino.
Scott you play great pal and you are far from steppin on anyone my friend....and if you do....well you know who will give you the eye???.....Yeah that super great O-MY-GOSH; he has forgotten more than I'll EVER know...Loessberg.
Ricky

justin25taylor · Post by **justin25taylor** » 22 Nov 2001 1:18 pm

Scott,
Are you going to be playing tomorrow at the red barn or something like that? All I know is it is at Canyon Lake and im going. Look Foreward to meeting you.
Justin

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 22 Nov 2001 1:44 pm

Not only was Mr. Glassman a talented fiddle player, he knew when to back off and get back in and complimant the other players in the band... I think Jim Cohen will agree as Jim performed at the steel show.

Len, not only do I agree completely with your assessment of Joel's playing, I've even invited him to be the fiddler on the next Beats Walkin' CD, which we are recording live on Dec. 7th. So, Joel will be traveling down from Boston to Philly to play on our CD. THAT's how much I like the way he plays!

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www.jimcohen.com

Dave Diehl · Post by **Dave Diehl** » 22 Nov 2001 2:56 pm

In reality there are probably some steel players that do the same. I play steel and fiddle and understand the saying "less is more". At times I put the fiddle down on the stool until it's my turn. This is something Jeff Newman drilled in my head. It's not something you can tell them and they'll get it because they don't understand it. It takes a "real" musician to understand this concept of "not playing too much" and actually exercising it. I truely believe if they stop, they will be lost where to come back in sooooo, just keep playing.

Scott Moon · Post by **Scott Moon** » 22 Nov 2001 3:23 pm

Justin
I'll be in Uvalde with Darrell McCall Friday night and I have a wedding to play Saturday. But Whenever you are going to be in the area, give me a call! 830/906-2065

Thanks
Scott

Ricky! Loessberg is a great picker and you are too my man! Enjoyed it!