The Steel Guitar Forum

I know I'm not the most popular and best thought of guy on this forum but I just want to go on record publicly to let my position known on a touchy subject. I have had a fellow inquire about a track c.d. to my album "Pure And Simple Country" and I told him the price and that yes he could use it at home or live if he wanted but not for recording purposes. He replied "how can I get permission to make my own album with those tracks?". Well here's the touchy part, The guy is overseas and doesn't understand the laws governing recorded music here in the U.S. and I don't blame him for that. But, He should understand that that c.d. cost me money to make. I paid the players, studio, paid to have them made, all applicable fees that go along with doing a project like this. And he wants to take my tracks and cut MY album without thinking that it cost me and not just money either. There is alot of work involved in a project like this. I'm sure if you ask Hal Rugg or John Hughey they'll tell you the same thing. I'll gladly sell anyone a track c.d. but please understand if people exploit guys work whether out of meaness or ignorrance it will eventually put a stop to steel albums. Thank you for your time. Mike Sweeney

<SMALL>"how can I get permission to make my own album with those tracks?". </SMALL>

Man, that really makes me uncomfortable. REALLY uncomfortable. As one who knows how much it costs to record an album ... I have two of my own..., and how much profit, if any, a picker makes from it, it sort of makes me want to offer rhythm tracks made with Band In A Box ONLY.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 24 October 2001 at 05:03 PM.]</p></FONT>

Tell him you'll charge exactly what it cost you for the musicians and studio time, engineer, mastering, etc. Then he can dub his playing and remaster and dupe. Then tell him he can't market beyond his country or continent. This way you recoup your costs and all your sales beyond materials are profit. Sounds like a win win.

And while you're at it, charge him an extra $100,000 to help pay for all the years of practice and musical training that it took for you to be able to produce the CD. .. Eh, make it $200,000. It's only money.

All kidding aside, the first order of business is to understand your legal protection. Copyright laws, and that sort of thing. If you don't have any, the guy could in principle do what he wants. The next matter is the ehtical/moral side of it, which is obviously trickier, because ethics and morals are not likely shared in the same way betweeen the two parties. To me though, the bottom line is the law i.e. what can he do and what can't he do. Maybe someone knows the answer to this. That information would be a lot more useful than some opinions about the morals and ehtics of the situation, IMHO.

I thought about this a while back too. What could stop a guy from buying someones soundtracks and dubbing himself in and selling tapes from the bandstand or maybe the internet? There's all kinds of soundtracks you can sing with out there. I've seen guys make a living with those tracks in Nashville and do pretty well playing a single act. People use these things for demos all the time.

This is a good one. The reality is, if this hasn't been published and copywrited and it's not generating enough income to afford a legal team, there may not be much you can do to stop him. On the plus side, the fact that he contacted you means he has ethics so maybe you could find out about what would be reasonable as a licencing fee and reach an amicable agreement.

My first album didn't make back the costs, my second album put me in the hole close to 5 figures, my last album's sales have broken into 2 figures, and I'm not going to tell you what that one cost me, (it will be a nice tax write off, as if I needed one), and my next one, being released next week, should put me in debtors prison.

Frank, I know how to stop this one instance. He won't get my tracks. I don't want to sound mean but if he wants to cut an album do it like everyone else and do it from scratch. I would be humbled if the guy copied something I did on there and say nice job but not with my tracks. I am not sorry I offered these things because I know there are alot of players who play for their own enjoyment at home and love to have a rythem section to play with and I have a good one on this project and I don't mind passing it along but I just want people to understand that it's unfair to everyone involved to use someone elses work for your project. I don't think the guy is being malicious at all I just think he doesn't understand. I have no hard feelings with the guy but I'm not going to take the chance here. But if anyone wants the tracks for their own personal use and enjoyment I'll sell you as many as you want. As I said I just wanted to let my position be known. Thanks, Mike

Mike, I don't know what country thisguy is from, but here in Holland we have a law, that protects the owner of the tracks. You need to pay the rights for publishing, need to pay for the rights, depends on the wholesaleprice,per copy, to a government-controlled organisation. At the other hand the composer gets money from them for sales, and all musicians that are registrated, even foreighn, receive money when broadcasted on national radio and tv, and regional radio and tv.
At all times the origin of the recording has to be named on the CD-cover, and the sales-rights have to be paid from the recordcompany, or the label, before distributing the CD.
I believe Germany has that kind of laws too.
So afterall, when you will have this arranged trough a good contract, it could be worth the try..
JJ


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STEELDAYS 2002
my web-site
my bands CODand TSC

Recently here in the US, CD manufacturers have been requiring signed statements about the copyright ownership of the material on the CD.

If your music is registered with BMI or ASCAP, as it should be, notify them and give them the info on the guy. If the recording is of covers, however, they may want to chat with YOU about your sales, etc. If the recording is of material you have composed, whichever aforementioned organization you are affiliated with will be more than glad to handle publishing and writer's royalty questions for you. It's what they do.

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-Tom www.tompowell.org

Mike Sweeney! You may recall sending me your CD, recently, I can see why someone would want to use your tracks, I have a ton of steel albums , cassettes, & CDs, Yours ranks right up with the best of them! >Al Udeen

Why not make the tracks available on cassette only. The lower fidelity would be fine for the home user but it's doubtful it could be copied and released as a "pro" product.

Rayman, I have already informed the guy and I'm not worried because if he doesn't already know from me telling him via e-mail then he knows from reading this. Everyone seems to be wanting to advise me on this matter and I thank all of you but it's not nessecerry. I know all the rules and it was a low budget thing compared to some and it's not the money TRUST ME! It is the fact that alot of work went in to this and due to a car wreck one year ago today this project took me over a year to finish. The guy said he would pay any fee he needed to but right now I will not agree to it. Maybe down the road sometime but not now. I sell these c.d.s at the Palace to tourists and alot of them are from overseas and while this is new I don't want to share it like that. I sell more albums to non-steel players than to steel players and therefor tracks are not needed but as I said I don't mind selling them as long as it's for personal use. And I think I will include those words on the packaging somewhere. I believe in useing live players for a recording because it gives that recording a personality. Please don't think I'm mad at the guy because I'm not and I hope to do buisness with him again and as I said I won't rule out releasing the rights for him to do this in the far distant future but not now. b0b please close this thread. Thanks, Mike

John Hughey makes his tracks available and after that he doesn't have any control of them and you won't either if you sell your tracks. I guess that's just a risk you have to take. I've never cut a steel album but would like something to show for before I'm through but after reading Chas's post I might have to settle for a live album. The engineers would have to come out a lot of times to hear me play enough instrumentals for an entire album!

I can't think of terms to describe this. Doesn't the guy have any creativity at all?I don't care how good something someone else did is, doing everything,and that includes your very own rythym tracks with the very players you've chosen yourself is part of doing a solo project. Why do a solo project if it isn't something you dreamed up and created yourself? I guess I just don't get it.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL> I've never cut a steel album but would like something to
show for before I'm through but after reading Chas's post I might have to settle for a live album.</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Frank, in all fairness, I don't do popular music, and there's probably a good argument that it's not even music. My personal compositions are in fact, personal, and I don't have too many illusions about what I'm doing. If I was in it for the money I wouldn't be in it. We all want to leave our 'mark' and my compositions are one of the marks I want to leave. I don't want to be lying on my deathbed full of 'woulda, shoulda, coulda's' ...