Do or Can you tune your STEEL without a "Tuner"????

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 15 Sep 2001 7:21 am

There are so many topics about"Tuners" "Cents" " Cabinet Drop" etc. I am wondering how many steelers take the old fashioned approach and rely on the Human "EARS" to tune a Steel. I understand the importance of tuning the open "E" in pitch but beyond that -------- ?? Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 15 Sep 2001 7:35 am

Tune to an open E? Ricky Davis, Where are you?

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 15 Sep 2001 7:52 am

Hi Ed,

Long time no see! Good to have you back on the Forum, ol' buddy.

I always tune my E's to straight up on the tuner and everything else is tuned by ear. There are valid reasons for tuning JI, especially your pulls, but experience (and ears) have taught me to tune the beats out, then maybe just nudge 'em a little more.. Just play on top of the fret and trust it.

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Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 15 Sep 2001 7:54 am

Yes Ed, the open "E" may be the most important benchmark, but beyond that it is important that the steel be in tune with the rest of the band (especially with the guitar player since we share so many of the same notes) The electronic tuner is only a "guide", not the final authority.

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 15 Sep 2001 9:09 am

Like a lot of the guys out there; I tune the Es then let my ears do the walking.
I found that during the first set of any given night - the steel is still settling down from the rumbling about in the car,set-up,room temp,finger/hand temp etc.. I have always felt that what got me interested in the steel first place, was the records out there with all that beautiful music not having been tuned with an electronic tuner.

When I have concerted some effort into tuning, (on rare occasions) i.e. going through all the open strings and pulls, it dosent take long before my ears take over and I`m back to square one again.

Like most steelers I know, we have developed a thing I call "tunyitus" which maintains tuning sanctity in the band. Even though the guitar players have tuned their instruments,with pushing/pulling their particular strings; they need to tune. They all dont have a tuner plugged straight through their equipement either.

Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs.and other weird things.

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Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 15 Sep 2001 9:11 am

I have always tuned by ear. Sometimes with an E other times an A. Here again I believe a lot of steel players are depending on to many electronic gadgets to do a lot of their playing for them. Don't get me wrong, I am not downing any electronics. I'm just saying that I think we depend on them to much sometimes.

Jerry

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 15 Sep 2001 9:43 am

Like all the other threads on this same subject, yes I can tune by ear but I usually don't. Too noisy on stage to do it, I can plug my tuner in and be in my own little world while I tune.

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 15 Sep 2001 11:27 am

Just a few thoughts on the subject from a certified non-professional.

I have a guitar with 4 pedals and 5 knees. Let's assume that the guitar was tuned up properly at one point in time (including all of the pedals and levers). Then someone comes along and messes with all of the tuning keys. If I could get even one string in tune, with all of the changes that give notes in unison (the 4th string lower to Eb for example) I think I could probably get the rest of the guitar in tune given enough time. The same is probably true for tuning the changes as well, but it may take a little longer. After all, how many times have you been playing along and notiiced that something just sounded a little bit off, you whipped out the tuner, and found that the tuning of several strings has drifted out? Your ears can usually tell you when it's right or not.

I think that this just leads back to the fact that using a tuner is just quicker, and as Jack Stoner eluded to, on stage you can never get the other instruments or the drummer (uh-oh, that's a joke guys) to shut up long enough to tune by ear. Not to mention the advantage that if everyone uses the tuner, then you all get started off from the same reference point.

Also, the tuning/tuner thing is probably most valid when you're doing open strings. After that, bar placement and unintentional slanting probably take over in terms of significance.

As a final thought, how many of us actually practice tuning? If you strum all of the strings from low to high, can you tell if one is out? Many, many, many years ago there was a cartoon series of the Beatles. As an intro to the individual segments/episodes, the theme music started off with an electric guitar with each of the six strings played slowly from low to high. Somehow this got burned into my mind, and to this day I still start off tuning my "regular" guitars that way. Anybody else remember this show?

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 15 Sep 2001 11:35 am

Hey Al; without getting waaaaaaaay into it like I normally do

....E9th is a non-pedal tuning on my pedal steel. I consider my pedal steel a "Pedal Steel" and the tuning for a pedal Steel is an "A" tuning. So I tune to "A" 440 and not "E" 440. I do use a tuner on stage....but I know where every note goes on my tuner....because of sitting down and tuning by ear many many times and mapping it out on my tuner; so I can tune on stage without making tons of noise and not being able to hear myself anyways.
Ricky

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 15 Sep 2001 1:21 pm

I play steel now, but played lead guitar in bands for many years. We always tuned to an open E provided by the piano/keyboard player. If you weren't in tune with the keyboard, you sounded like CRAP! Consequently, we didn't concern ourselves with electronic tuners and "cents", because you were going to be out "dollars" by not being hired back, if you didn't sound good!

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 15 Sep 2001 1:53 pm

Tom! You say you tuned open to an E provided by a piano! thats not an E provided by a tuner, that is a correct E that is in sync with A440! enough said!

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 15 Sep 2001 2:00 pm

Tom, this brings up an interesting question.

If you had a piano and it was the old fashioned acoustic kind where you couldn't vary the pitch, what then? If it was far enough out and you tuned the steel open strings to it, then would all of the pedals be out of tune? You'd probably have to retune the whole guitar, right?

Of course, if the piano was close enough no one would probably notice anyway.

Moon in Alaska · Post by **Moon in Alaska** » 15 Sep 2001 3:46 pm

Well, It's not surprising that all the OLD TIMERS can tune without a tuner, as most of them played many years before even hearing about a tuner !! My experience with tuners only goes back about 10 years and I have played steel more than 50 years.
Now after saying that, it is handy to use one in a noisy place.

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Sep 2001 4:02 pm

Give me an "E" and I'm good to go! Seriously...every time I get out the tuner and try to make things perfect (tuning all opens and pulls with the tuner), I wind up tuning for half-an-hour, and no closer in playing tune than I was when I started. Some players use charts and such, and that's fine. But I have a hard time just remembering the string guages, let alone the "cents", plus or minus on the opens and pulls. I really don't care how anyone tunes, because that's only half the picture. You have to be able to play in tune too, That's what's important!!! You HAVE to train your ear, because the tuner only helps while you're tuning. Once you put the bar on the strings, and start playing, the damn tuner is useless! I've seen some players take a guitar that's in "reasonable tune" (I can hear them when they tune, and I know it's close), and then play so far out of tune that I had to get up and leave.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 15 Sep 2001 4:31 pm

I'm not a long time steel player, but I've played standard for many years, and there Is one thing they both have In commmon.

A standard must be tuned twice. First open with them tuning things up on the head stock. Then you must go to the 12th fret, and with your finger holding the string down, tune It again with the screws on your bridge. It's called intonation. If you don't do It, you'll be In tune up by the nut but not as you go up the neck. I think thats what makes a steel sound so out tune at the 12th fret If It's tuned In tune.

That Is what made tempered tuning make sense to me. I first use the tuner to get me In the ball park. Then I also use my ears to finsh. And then sometimes I use small bar slants If I'm off a little.

Bob Carlson

Vern Kendrick · Post by **Vern Kendrick** » 15 Sep 2001 6:13 pm

What's a tuner.....???

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 15 Sep 2001 6:14 pm

How can something so simple as tuning a guitar become so complicated?

Jerry

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 15 Sep 2001 6:28 pm

I'm with Ricky. I tune only mt E's (pedals down), then chime the rest. When I get into a high stage or crowd noise, I then refer to my tuner, where I know every string pitch that is close.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 15 Sep 2001 7:12 pm

I have always tune by ear for all those years.
But You have to tune with the piano or lead guitar, whatever his A or E is.
Then I tune my strings to that. But again, I have used a tuner on the bandstand, it sure is handy with all that noise....al

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 15 Sep 2001 7:15 pm

To Al Undeen

Al, we use to follow Jerry Lee Lewis' act from ballroom to ballroom (sometimes a day or two to a week later. The ballrooms were notorious for not having their pianos tuned. He would beat the H--- out of a piano! It was never in sync to a true A440...an electronic tuner (if there were one available at that time) would be of no practical use. We did the best we could!

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 15 Sep 2001 8:34 pm

Tom. I did the same thing for many years! We would get an E from the piano & go from there, If the piano was flat or sharp, we were all flat or sharp, but we were in tune!? or were we? Today I would get an A from the piano & tune my 6th string, pedals down to that! Now Ricky! get ready to go a bit farther! > Al Udeen

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 15 Sep 2001 11:08 pm

How can something so simple as tuning a guitar become so complicated?

pedals

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 16 Sep 2001 3:13 am

Post by **b0b** » 16 Sep 2001 8:25 am

Wrong forum. I'm moving this to Pedal Steel, where people would be likely to search for tuning topics.

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