The Steel Guitar Forum

OOOkay, I've been reading the hype and eagerly awaiting this show. I just watched the tape of last night's performance on Conan.

I am very disappointed. First.... Stevens bar? I love the Stevens bar for lap and Dobro, but not on PSG. But then that performance had very little to do with the pedal steel guitar other than the fact that it was performed on a purple Fessenden. And Randolph didn't help himself with the so-so distorted tone and the cheesy auto-wah. And at the end he was flailing on the guitar in a futile attempt to wring something, anything out of it. Good news, bad news, Jerry. Millions of people saw your guitar last night; few of them know the beautiful sounds that can come from it.

Yes, it was just one song and there was plenty of potential for nerves and the producers certainly said "Okay fellas, give us something snappy". But with all the press and build up I was ready for the second coming. On the positive side, the North Mississippi All Stars were fantastic.



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Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox
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Michael, I stayed up to watch the performance. As a whole, Christopher Walken danced pretty good. I guess I don't understand all the hype. I am glad that our instrument is spreading to other forms of music and will live on long after we are gone. The band as a whole was real tight. Al Perkins was doing this 20 something years ago. Larry

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GO TITANS GO!!!

I heard the public radio interview and RR played some blistering stuff. On the Conan show, he buried it behind "effects". It also didn't help that the sound engineers probably had no idea how to wring some good sound out of the steel, unlike the electric guitar which had a terrific sound. In all likelihood, RR was more concerned with promoting the song that the particulars of the sound of the steel that would appeal to us. Had they done a straight blues number with no effects, I believe he would have scorched the TV set. Maybe next time.

I agree with you, Mr. Holland. I saw it last night too and I have seen some of the video clips on the Web. I think it is a good thing that people are trying to do different things with the instrument and they should be encouraged without being lied to and without over-hyping.

Last night, my wife thought it sounded like an electric guitar. That is ok, but do not try to tell me that the future of the instrument lies in how much we can make it sound like another instrument. It is great that the instrument is versatile enough to sound like other instruments when necessary, but that should not be the rule.

IMHO, if the steel guitar will only appeal to the masses if it sounds like an electric guitar, then how in the world is that really the promotion of PEDAL STEEL GUITAR???

When I hear people describe the stereotype sounds of steel as "crying," etc., then all I have to say is if people think the sounds of Hughey, Emmons, Rugg, Myrick, Franklin, Jernigan, Garrish, etc., are not pleasant to the ear, then WHO IN THE HECK CARES WHAT THOSE PEOPLE THINK! They obviously have a poor taste in music and I have no interest in "distorting" real tone to impress them!

Someone posted on the Forum that they are hoping they will live to see the day that the "Charlie Parker" of steel guitar will appear. I have news for you, he is here and is Doug Jernigan. Jernigan may not be the "right color" for some of you, but that is YOUR problem. Just listen to "Jazz by Jernigan" and catch him live with a good staff band. You might figure it out.

One thing I have noticed about many of those who seem to get really excited about steel guitar played in a way that is very different from the real heros of the instrument, is that they are often not very accomplish at playing in those styles and their tone is amateur.

BTW, I do NOT think that Country is the ONLY genre for the instrument.

As for me, I would rather play like the top pros (the partial list above) who have nothing to apologize for in their approach to the instrument and the great sounds/licks they have come up with.

Do some of you really believe that the top pros (some listed above) have not done enough for the instrument? That is looney!

The first time I saw Joe Wright play in Knoxville in 1997, I came away thinking that his approach is the "future" of the instrument--12 string Universal tuning using three finger picks, no amateur tone. That is not to say that our patriarchs will become out-dated. No way!

If one wants to learn to play steel the correct way, then learn from the top pros and try to stand on their shoulders, if you can.

BTW, those video clips of Billy Phelps at NAMM that Ann posted are incredible. Now that is something to get excited about.


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1978 Rosewood Emmons Push-Pull D-10 8+4

I saw RR last night with The North Mississippi All Stars and John Medeski.
I did not see him on Conan.

I think that you really have to see him in full context, that is in concert. I feel that
(even though I didn't see him) it's not a full representation of his talents, especially for a short segment arranged for television. His sound varies as he plays both with effects (as many sacred steelers do) and without them.
The kids, yes kids, in the audience dance and go crazy over him.

He always introduces his instrument.
His exact words last night "I'm Robert Randolph and I got THE PEDAL STEEL GUITAR. It's not a turntable. I'm not a DJ. It is not a keyboard. John Medeski plays keyboard. IT IS A PEDAL STEEL GUITAR".

I personally enjoy him better when he is in concert with his family band. He sings,(as do the other members) he moves, he gets up, he dances, and he has a great interaction with his audience. All while playing the steel right up front.

I guess you can say that I like him.

I care as much about what bar he's using as what kind of underwear he's got on.....

So let me get this straight. Everyone preaches that you should strive for originality, but I guess what they are really saying is that you should go for your "own sound" as long as it sounds like the masters. I don't buy it.

To interested forum members,

Robert Randolf is a dear friend, as is Mike Holland, and WC Edgar. I highly respect and call everbody that has posted here a dear close friend. I am not saying this to be political, I have known Robert Randolf for several years and have done everything I could to encourage and promote him as a far out diferant kind of player, as I feel steel guitar needs this new deminsion. I honestly agree with Mike Holland says, and I honestly agree with everything WC Edgar says, but thank god we have Robert Randolf to introduce steel guitars to another deminsion of folks that the rest of have not been able to reach. Robert is by far not he greatest player in the world (today anyways), however, we all need what he is doing for us, and he has tremendous enthusiasm and respect for all of us (white country guys), ha!ha! Lloyd Greene and myself, and several Nashville better known steel players have 'jammed' with Robert, and we have buried him in some ways, and he has buried us in others. He plays totally differant, and I think this is what we all need. Lets get behind him an push him as hard as we can. Thank you to all my close friends.
Bobbe Seymour

Not exactly, Todd... One should build on the foundation that the masters have laid and that includes learning about their technique.

Again, the bulk of my post is about the hype regarding the future of the instrument. It is directed at those folks.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Frank Estes on 08 August 2001 at 09:30 AM.]</p></FONT>

what? didn't he play "A Way to Survive"?

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Greg Simmons
Custodian of the Official Sho~Bud Pedal Steel Guitar Website
shobud.cjb.net

"One thing I have noticed about many of those who seem to get really excited about steel guitar played in a way that is very different from the real heros of the instrument, is that they are often not very accomplish at playing in those styles and their tone is amateur."

So, Frank in your opinion what should the future of the instrument be?
I think that a knowledge of the past is a great tool. But I think you can put to much emphasis on it. I think the truly great players are the ones that combine their knowledge of the past with modern day influences. I don't know all of Robert's history, but it seems like his entire education on the instrument was in church, and only recently was he exposed to most other forms of music.

<SMALL>I came away thinking that his approach is the "future" of the instrument--12 string Universal tuning</SMALL>

Say what??? We are in the "future" - the Universal tuning started 25 years ago. Some players used 3-finger picks 25 years ago as well. Neither has come close to replacing the defacto D-10, 2 finger pick standard. No one knows what the "future" holds. Certainly, no one thought that the "future" might be in the hands of Sacred Steelers playing a 13-string E7 tuning, so we'll just have to see.

I didn't see the show so I can't comment on it, but I have had the peasure of seeing Robert live (from 4 feet away) at a Hollywood rock club called the Roxy in the heart of the famous Sunset Strip.

L.A. is not like Nashville. It is the home of the rock and roll industry. Nobody (or at least very few) people in Hollywood know anything about country. I've previously mentioned playing with a "country" band whose lead singer knew every Beatle and Rolling Stones song ever written, but never heard of Merle Haggard.

Robert was a tremendous hit here in L.A. The people in that club absolutely loved him. Most of them were there to see one of the other bands, but he stole the show that night.

These people had never seen a pedal steel guitar before. Robert is introducing our instrument to these people, on thier terms. He is doing what Buddy, or Paul, or LLoyd or Doug J, or any of our other heros have not been able to do.

Now he may not be as great a player as our heros, but the fact remains, he's reaching people that have previously never heard of the steel, and some of those people are musicians, and some of them are going to start playing the steel because of him.

It may not be the kind of music or playing that some people prefer, but it's happening, and we will eventually all be better off because of it. For that reason alone, Randolph deserves our support.

BTW, I introduced myself to him, and amazingly he knew who I was. We chatted a while after the gig, and then had a nice phone conversation a week later. (I gave him my phone number and E-mail address.) He is coming back to L.A. later this month and we'll be getting together for lunch.

<SMALL>One should build on the foundation that the masters have laid and the includes learning about their technique.</SMALL>

Should Jimi Hendrix have played a bunch of Wes Montgomery solos on his first album to prove himself to a few guitar snobs ?

One way I look at it is Robert is going to make us steel players a bunch of money. Now we get hired to record on ballads and country type tunes for the most part. Robert is gonna get us work on the rock and blues type tunes as he personally blows open a whole new genre for the steel guitar. Give him a couple years and I'll bet he will find a few new doors to kick down that we never even thought of. He is a great steel player, musician and performer. Plus he practices all the time !

Bob

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 08 August 2001 at 10:11 AM.]</p></FONT>

Last night, millions of people nationwide saw somebody take up valuable airtime to introduce a "Pedal Steel Guitar", sit front and center as soloist with the band -- and not be an overweight, balding, aging, white guy like me (and at least one or two other pickers I know )

I'm all for it.

By the way, on his NPR segment on Sunday, he demonstrated that he does indeed have "country chops" (so, yes, he has studied and learned from the masters). But he knows that there are many more people delivering that product already, who grew up in that musical tradition. He's offering something different, from his own tradition that is of interest to millions of people who've never even heard of our "egg-slicers" before.

I'm all for it. (Did I say that already?)

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www.jimcohen.com

Frank,
I must strongly disagree with your statement that Doug Jernigan is the 'Charlie Parker of the steel guitar'. Not to denigrate Doug in any way -- he is truly an exceptional musician -- but the contribution that Parker made to the music of the Western hemisphere in general is truly profound and his influence has been felt in and beyond the jazz community for 60 years. Lets not lose our musical perspective here. Nearly every jazz player has played one of his compositions and the very foundation of jazz was fundamentally changed by his contributions.

This is simply not true for Doug, as much as I admire and respect his accomplishments.

What I've heard of Robert Randolph (admittedly, not much) I think I've heard before. Freddy Roulette and others have played AUTHENTIC blues on the steel; I love playing rock and r&b on pedal steel myself. The real issue is taking pedal steel beyond the confines of country, western, and Hawaiian music. That's where Robert Randolph is making inroads beyond what any of our traditional heros have in the past. I'm not nearly as impressed with his playing as I am with the impact he is having on society. I think it's healthy for kids who may become gang members or criminals to have (1) something to do and (2) someone to look up to. The influence of Robert Randolph is clearly a good thing.

Does/will this equal the contribution of Charlie Parker (or Miles Davis or Duke Ellington -- sorry if I left out your favorite)? I doubt it, because there is little there MUSICALLY that didn't exist before.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

RE: Three finger picks
25 years ago? Try 40+. If anybody out there,has a copy of,"Two Guitars,Country Style" by Speedy West & Jimmy Bryant,look closely. Speedy's wearin' <u>3</u> finger picks.

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But look at what Emmons does with just TWO PICKS.

It ain't the meat, it's the MOTION.

I just knew that our resident Sanhedren were gonna pounce all over RR when I saw him last night on Conan! Honestly, I was'nt all that thrilled with the performance either....they looked nervous. I am glad I stayed up though, and that I was able to get out of my steel player mode for a minute and just listen. I liked him!

IMHO,it was a moment in steel guitar history!

I do wish he could've done that outrageously inspired, annointed "voice thing" that I heard him play on the NPR site....now that gave me chills!!!

I hope he continues to follow his own muse, (not ours...or even his church's) which is truly the ONLY way for a musician like him to achieve any kind of true greatness. I'd like to see him succeed.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 08 August 2001 at 11:02 AM.]</p></FONT>

Mr Simmons:

<SMALL>what? didn't he play "A Way to Survive"? </SMALL>

That is funny.

Todd:

<SMALL>So, Frank in your opinion what should the future of the instrument be?</SMALL>

I think it should continue to evolve as it has without any embarrassment about the past. For example, Buddy showed us that fast jazz tunes could be played on pedal steel with his recording in 1963. Doug showed how a player can play an ENTIRE bluegrass tune, full-speed, and not just a solo. Weldon gave us the "one-pedal, two-finger, 3-string" approach to speed picking. Paul showed us the next level of speed picking and pop steel. Doug delivers an impossible recording of Parker tunes and he can play them LIVE! The list goes on and on and I left out plenty.

RR may turn out to be "the second coming" of Buddy Emmons, but not yet as others seem to think he is now.

Larry Bell:
I think that Doug being able to play those Parker tunes on Pedal steel is quite an accomplishment. If your ONLY criteria for being a "Charlie Parker" is the inventing of a new form of music, then I would not argue there. That would not be my only criteria, though. Of course, an argument could be made that Doug being the first to play bluegrass hoe downs as entire songs and not just a solo is pretty revolutionary for pedal steel.


Mr. Lampert, I am aware that the Universal tuning has been around a long time, but you will have to admit that Joe's approach is fresh and different and that is what I meant. The other Universal players have not made the same impression on me. In spite of this, I will happily stay with two picks and a D-10.

If I were just starting out, then I would take a look at that direction, but if I simply played the the E9/B6 as though it is a D-10 instead of one Big tuning like Joe does, then I would be better off with a D-10.

I want to make it clear that I DO wish RR and all the rest all the success possible and I am happy about the steel guitar being introduced to more people. I just think it should sound like a steel guitar.

At this point, I do not think this is "the revolution" that many think it is. It may turn out to be, but not in its current form.

<SMALL>may not be the "right color" for some of you, but that is YOUR problem. </SMALL>

That was totally uncalled for, Frank.

I'm surprised no one else has called you on it.

<SMALL>BTW, those video clips of Billy Phelps at NAMM that Ann posted are incredible. Now that is something to get excited about.</SMALL>

why, because he's "the right color?"
I do not know Billy. From what I see/hear on the video clip his rock chops seem mighty fine, but in that genre I believe Robert R could "cut" him, and many other "rock" steel pickers severely. But it's MUSIC- NOT a freakin' WAR.

Robert has stated his respect for and displayed his abilities in playing "traditional" Pedal Steel Guitar styles.

What he's doing, and the opportunities being presented to him for widening the scope and public appreciation of the instrument is groundbreaking.And he's young yet- he's got a lot more to learn...

Perhaps his fans may be excited enough about PSG to either take it up, or to research on their own the rich history of this young instrument. They will come to their own appreciation of the OTHER tradition of PSG, the maestros we all know and love.


"It's just music, Man. It's playing clean and looking for the pretty notes." Charles Parker


you did it again Frank... got me pi$$ed off enough to respond. I gotta quit this.

<SMALL>I think that Doug being able to play those Parker tunes on Pedal steel is quite an accomplishment.</SMALL>

I disagree. I can play several Charlie Parker tunes. Being able to play them AS WELL AS DOUG DOES is another issue.

Seriously, my buddy Frank Rogers burns bebop tunes with the best of them, Emmons has recorded at least one ('Scrapple' on 'Minors Aloud') and Randy Beavers recorded 'Au Privave' more than 20 years ago. I'm sure there are others, but that doesn't qualify one as an innovator of equal importance as Bird, across all instruments and many forms of music.

Charlie Parker's contributions far exceeded his playing. His compositions and improvisations introduced new ways of thinking about harmonic and melodic structure. There have certainly been saxophone players who can duplicate every note and nuance, but few, if any, who changed the course of musical evolution. Many (if not most) steel players are aware of Charlie Parker. How many sax players (outside of Nashville) are aware of Doug Jernigan? Doug is great, but he ain't no Charlie Parker. Get over it.

Just my opinion (I COULD be wrong).<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 08 August 2001 at 12:09 PM.]</p></FONT>

Well DVA, let me explain it:

I personally do NOT think the next "Charlie Parker" has to be any particular race, but in the context of the person who posted about living to see the day of the "Charlie Parker" of steel guitar, they seemed to think it was only going to come from a particular race. That bothered me. I would expect that it would be about STYLE.

Based on an interview I heard, Charlie Parker believed that jazz should be played "clean and precise." I think that describes Jernigan exactly and that is another reason why I said I think Jernigan is the "Charlie Parker" of steel. I hope people would not think one has to be a certain race for this to be true.

BTW, it should be no surprise that I think Charlie Parker's music is wonderful.

<SMALL>but in that genre I believe Robert R could "cut" him, and many other "rock" steel pickers severely. </SMALL>

Maybe, but I certainly would not take YOUR word for it and you have no way of knowing.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>
why, because he's "the right color?"</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is typical of your lack of reasoning, logic, and basic reading comprehension. It is obviously because of the TONE! Guess what? It is easy to figure out that is why Ann posted it: to show how the Carter Starter has great tone. Duh!

<SMALL>Robert has stated his respect for and displayed his abilities in playing "traditional" Pedal Steel Guitar styles.</SMALL>

That is great and I am glad to hear it.

AGAIN, My problem is not with RR, but those who are over-hyping this. It is actually unfair to RR to over-hype this because it raises the expectations too high, which is what has happened here.

<SMALL>you did it again Frank... got me pi$$ed off enough to respond. I gotta quit this.</SMALL>

DVA, thanks for you showing your true colors again and trying to make me the subject instead of the issues. It must really be a sad life to be ruled by personal grudges so that it strips your powers of reasoning, if you had any.

Try thinking instead of feeling for a change.

Hey guys, this has the potential to be a great positive thread,I hate to see my buddys at slight odds with each other, we all need what Robert is doing for us. To know him is to love him. We should all have his enthusiasum and love for this instrument. Isn't it wonderful that we can have something like this even happen for our instrument! Treat Robert good as he is our great friend and is doing more for steel than Jerry Garcia did.(woops, sorry,that was another argument). You guys look back at these posts and see what your saying, We're lucky Robert plays steel, he could have played guitar,organ,piano,etc. AND--- REMEMBER, he's only 21 years old!
Bobbe

You are quite correct, Bobbe. I wish him all the best. Let's face it, I got caught up in the hype and tuned in with probably unrealistic expectations. That is the danger in over-hyping.

You all will have to overlook some of those who make me the target. They have had their hats handed to them in past debates (most likely political ones on the OTB) by yours truly and are not over it to this day.

Those are the ones who tend to ruin threads and take people on tangents that wastes time and effort all in an attempt to make someone look bad. It is truly sad.

I guess I will stay out of it for now, so the focus will remain on the topic.

Later...