Technical Question - Jerry Garcia w/ pedal steel

Brandon Roper · Post by **Brandon Roper** » 13 Aug 2001 11:53 am

Aparently this is a very tired and heated subject on the forum but as a Novice to the world of Pedal Steel I have a serious question, so please dont bash me for my ignorance on the subject or reply w/ some some smart-a$$ response.
I am VERY fond of the "style/sounds" that Jerry Garcia, New Riders of the Purple Sage and Poco produced. To me they seem very reminicent of the "Bakersfield" sound. In fact I would love to be able to reproduce that "style" playing. Now my question is: What is wrong w/ J.Garcia's style on Teach You Children and Dire Wolf? Was his techinques, his sloppyness or what? What, technically, was he doing wrong? I am not trying to say that he was any "Pedal Steel super-hero" by any means but I really LOVE that sound! Thanks-Brandon

Bobby Snell · Post by **Bobby Snell** » 13 Aug 2001 12:10 pm

Let's start with his equipment: I think that Garcia was using a ZB through a Fender amp, and he used some sort of delay (I would bet an Echoplex).

Some of his b@njo chops I think explain some of the picking style, and I think you can hear him using a left-hand blocking, bar-lifting technique. He was pretty heavy on the volume pedal use too.

Just my $.02, maybe the folks who hate Garcia will sit this one out.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 13 Aug 2001 12:31 pm

Brandon,

If you like that style of playing check out Buddy Cage (he took over Garcia's gig in The New Riders as well as other stuff) . I saw him this weekend and he is sounding great.

Also since you live in his area you might want to track down Ralph Mooney. He is the father of the west coast sound and as far as I know is still out there doing it.
Tne guys at GFI pedalsteels will know what he is up to these days.

Bob

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 13 Aug 2001 12:36 pm

One thing that must have effected his right hand technique is the fact that he lost the middle finger on that hand down to the middle joint, in a childhood accident.

I doubt anybody here actually hates Garcia himself or is all that disturbed with his playing. (What kind of a person could've disliked him?) It's just a resentment of the public's lack of awareness of more advanced players.

Ah, to be in the same area as Ralph Mooney. Somebody should make an instructional video with him, so we could get all those classic licks, right from the source, before it's too late. That would be great. [This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 13 August 2001 at 01:44 PM.]

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 13 Aug 2001 1:52 pm

Brandon , If the "Teach you Children" intro touched you as it did many others around here (myself included) I tend to believe there was nothing wrong with it technically or otherwise.
I've sat back and watched the Jerry bashers pick him apart here for years.
My personal opinion... Let him rest in peace....
Besides there's a new kid on the block who
they can take aim at.
... For some reason I don't think he will be as easy a target.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Aug 2001 2:05 pm

Brandon, you can reproduce his style, if that is what you prefer. But along with playing that style, you'd have to find someone who is looking for that style to ever get a job. The pop-music world is funny...style sells, but quickly fades with public whim. On the other hand, ability don't sell worth a damn (a lot of times), but it does tend to have a lot more longevity in the eyes of John Q. Public.

Styles, and instrument sounds, change with the times. People here often quip and chide about me being "stuck in the past" when I mention Tubb, Owens, and Bush. But guess what...the same thing holds true if you're hooked on Pure Prarie League, The Grateful Dead, or The Flying Burrito Brothers. They were good in their time and surroundings, but there's no way of "bringing them back".

Since you're a novice, I give you the following advice...

It's certainly not popular to remain stuck in the past...and it's not much better to want to start there.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 13 Aug 2001 3:28 pm

Country-rock is basically synonymous with the "Bakersfield" sound and certainly the hot-picking pedal steel styles of NRPS and POCO were synonymous with the country-rock genre of the 70's. This kind of playing is characterized by loads of non-stop hot licks, and (this is particularly important) constant riffing behind the singer. I played lots of those songs back then and I suggest picking up any early NRPS and POCO albums. In particular, get the NRPS album "Panama Red" and the POCO album "Pickin' Up The Pieces" in order to hear the quintessential examples of the style. I think Garcia's playing (as beautifully melodic as it was) might have evolved to that had he kept actively doing it, but in the end, he was no where near players like Buddy Cage and Rusty Young in terms of the variety of patterns he played and the technique that was employed. So in the end, rather than trying to find the sparse examples of Garcia's steel playing, go for the big cahunas if you want to be a country-rocker. BTW, Commander Cody (w/Bobby Black on steel) was also an active country rocker. Looks for albums by him wih songs such as "Truck Drivin' Man" and "Semi-Truck" to find that style as well. Also, get ahold of Waylon Jennings "Rainy Day Woman" to hear Ralph Mooney do his Bakersfield thing. And last, but no where neat least, pick up the Desert Rose Band's greatest hits album "A Dozen Roses" and Chris Hillman and Herb Pederson's album "Bakersfield Bound" featuring arguably the greatest Bakersfield-sound player of all time, JayDee Maness. I'm pretty sure b0b sells that CD. Regards.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Aug 2001 3:28 pm

Jerry's approach to steel, as well as guitar, was very much driven by scales. Learn your scales well, and learn them with a flatted seventh. Be aware of the chords, but don't let the chords dictate what note you will play next.

Jerry usually flatted the seventh tone of the scale, but when the song went to the V7 chord he would "unflat" the note to make it fit. So, in the key of C he'd use the F scale (with its Bb note), but when the progression went to a G chord he'd switch to the C scale (with its B natural).

Jerry's notes have two distinct volume levels. Most of the notes are at the lower volume, but some of them "jump out" at the higher volume level. I get the impression that these accents were very deliberate.

I think he felt inadequate on steel because he couldn't really master it with the same degree of expression he got out of his guitar. The pedal steel is a harder instrument to control. He never did get really comfortable on it.

The more I listen to the Dead, the more I appreciate their approach to music. They knew their roots well, and they built on those roots in a very unique way. You get the impression that nobody ever told anyone what to play. They just took it on faith that each player would come up with a part that would work. And it did.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E7, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 13 Aug 2001 3:29 pm

Brandon,
It's important to play what you like.
Learning the steel licks from TYCW and Dire Wolf is a great way to get into steel playing. Those tunes use all the basic pedals/levers and many of the basic chord positions and licks.
Jam along with your favorite Dead/Jerry, NRPS, and Poco tunes and have a blast pickin' out the licks.
Most importantly...
HAVE FUN!!!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 13 Aug 2001 4:23 pm

Brandon,

All's I can say to you, as a new steel player is:

You who are on the road
Must have a code that you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a-goodbye"

Play the music you love and enjoy.
jc

Brandon Roper · Post by **Brandon Roper** » 13 Aug 2001 8:46 pm

Hey Fella's!
Just wanted to say thanks a million for all the help and ESPECIALLY the encouragement!It sincerely means alot to me. (Especially going into the unknown!)I dont intend to make the J. Garcia style my main focus, but I would definately like it to be part of the line up. I feel like I am about to embark on a wonderful new journey. I have always been a true lover of music and since the 1st time I picked up a guitar I knew I'd never set it down. I think this Pedal Steel thing is gonna be the same way and one MEAN addiction!!!!! THANKS AGAIN
P.S. Does anyone happen to have teh tab to Greatful Deads -Dire Wolf?

Dan Dickey · Post by **Dan Dickey** » 14 Aug 2001 5:47 am

This post has nothing to do with Jerry Garcia , but I am sitting here listening to Ralph Mooney and the "Bakersfield Sound". Try to find the CD "Buck Owens sings Harlan Howard". This CD is packed with Ralph playing steel and I mean dominate steel on each song. I had been trying to find the song Key's in the mailbox sung by Buck Owens and had to have a local music store order the CD for me. When it arrived, it simply floored me with Ralph banging away on each song. Great example of Bakersfield.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Aug 2001 7:41 am

Brandon...only playing what YOU like often leads to that dreaded disease...

"The stuck-at-home-steeler syndrome"

(Been there, done that.)

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 14 Aug 2001 7:43 am

Brandon,
You don't really need tab for either TYCW or Dire Wolf.
Just start pumpin the A+B pedals together for the intros, the minors can be done on the A pedal alone.
Also rock on/off the A pedal with the B pedal down.
Most all of it lies on strings 3-6.
I record anything I want to jam along with onto a cassette recorder with pitch control and dial the pitch in so I'm in tune with the recording.
Jam along with these tunes for a few hours
and make your own tab sheet or committ it to memory.
You can get chord/lyric sheets off of any Dead Head Lyric site on the net.
Email me direct if you need help (click on the sunglasses). I can give you a quick crash course with one phone call.
-Pete

ps
Play what you like/love/want to play above all else!!! [This message was edited by Pete Burak on 14 August 2001 at 08:47 AM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 14 Aug 2001 10:56 am

b0b,
I don´t think that Jerry ever wondered much about the scales you mentioned. He played very much from the instinct, as he did on guitar.
Technically it may not always have been strictly correct, but to him and a lot of others it sounded good, and after all Jerry was just playing music he believed in, he was one that really played from the heart.
I started out myself by copying his stuff, but some day not too soon you will want to go to the next step.I strongly recommend checking out Jerry´s succesor in the NRPS, Buddy Cage, and after a while start listening to the stuff that influenced Buddy (just do a search on the Forum). You may dig it, such as I did, or maybe find it´s not so much your kind of thing, then go and check out something else. All I can say is that for me listening to Jerry has been the beginning of a fantastic journey.
Happy Trails, Joe H.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » 14 Aug 2001 11:13 am

JOE HENRY
I am with you << AGREE >>
( maybe it,s the name)
HENRY

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 Aug 2001 1:18 pm

Joe, maybe Jerry didn't think a lot about scales, but he instinctively played a scale-based style. I watched him play guitar up close one night at the Family Dog, in a trio setting (Jerry, Phil and Mickey). It was like a music lesson on how scales and chords work together.

As much as people say that Teach Your Children is "basic stuff", I've never heard anyone play it right. Pete says you don't need tab, just pump the A+B pedals. I disagree. Every time I've heard a steel player try to fake that intro and solo, it sounds like shit compared to Jerry's recording. It may just be basic A+B pedal changes, but the composition and phrasing are evidence of a master musician at work.

I'd cut off my middle finger if I thought it would help me play like that.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E7, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Ed Kuhns · Post by **Ed Kuhns** » 14 Aug 2001 3:55 pm

b0b--I completely agree with your take on Jerry Garcia, and I was never really a Dead fan. And I love the intro to "Teach"--what a pretty piece of playing. The masters really know how to choose their notes. Ed

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Aug 2001 4:15 pm

Brandon, this one statement you made...

I dont intend to make the J. Garcia style my main focus, but I would definately like it to be part of the line up.

...shows me that you have the right attitude!

Some players wish just to pattern themselves after one particular steeler. But the proper idea (IMHO) is to pattern after many, and then develop your own unique style.

Playing music is like anything else...sometimes you'll be able to do what you want, and then sometimes you won't. That's true in most any undertaking. But, the times it "clicks", the times it really all comes together, makes it all worthwhile.

I'm sure you'll soon be a great player!

Post by **Joey Ace** » 14 Aug 2001 5:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
. Every time I've heard a steel player try to fake that intro and solo, it sounds like s*it compared to Jerry's recording. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree, b0b!

I spent spent some time figuring it out note-for-note. It's a great tune. The notes aren't that difficult, but the phrasing is the key.

My tab is at Rebel and Ricky's site http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/1970.html

I hate when I hear a good steeler fake and butcher this tune. It's very much like hearing a standard guitarist fake Johnny B. Goode. It's not easy to do right.

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<img align=left src="http://www.pedalsteel.tv/img/joey.jpg" >
-j0e-
www.pedalsteel.tv

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 14 Aug 2001 6:38 pm

It's great to finally hear some HONEST commentary about the fact that it is probably just as difficult to play Jerry Garcia's "Teach Your Children" as it is to play Paul Franklin's solos in "Married To A Waitress". And anyone that says your crazy hasn't nailed Garcia's phrasing and the rhythmic punctuation of his attack when playing those "simple" notes. It's a very atypical style and is in many ways harder to play than a beehive of sixteenth notes on a bluegrass song. Sort of like asking a 95 mph power pitcher to throw a slow, looping curve ball over the plate. Most can't. I've worked on both and I know of what I speak. If anyone has TRULY mastered the TYC intro, solo, and fills, power to 'em.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 14 Aug 2001 8:15 pm

Speaking of Paul F. and Jerry G., check out a disk called "Red Hot and Country" on Mercury Records. It's a compilation of songs by 17 different artists, opening with---you guessed it, "Teach Your Children" by Suzy Boggus, Alison Krauss, Kathy Mattea and Crosby, Stills and Nash themselves. Pretty nice. I think it's in a different key than the orig. this newer version features Paul on steel.

I sat down one night and listened to the orig. and this cut. Very different phrasing on the two different PSG parts. Of course, Paul Franklin toys with the riffs in his unique style, more fluid than Jerry, sure, but I couldn't honestly say it enhances the song any better than J.G. Also, Jerry's tone is outstanding. You might say he did very well for a guy just starting out.

Garcia had a remarkable ear and according to one biography, he practiced a lot when he first took up PSG.

Brandon, another guy you might want to listen to is Sneaky Pete Kleinow, the original Flying Burrito Brothers steel player. He has a unique approach (what is it about California guys?) that was "unorthodox" but very melodic and fit the material he played on beautifully. Search for him on this forum. He has a website and you'll be amazed at the number of artists he recorded with. It's a whose who of hit makers from the '70s.

Regarding the novice emulating unorthodox players, I'm so glad people listen to and absorb the influence of players considered "outside" the norm of what most folks think a steel guitar should sound like. That takes nothing away from the masters. Buddy E. himself has commented how much he admired the playing of Pete Kleinow. ----JR

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 15 Aug 2001 7:30 am

I, too, love Sneaky Pete´s playing, although I think it´s kinda hard to emulate on a standard E9th tuning. He had an unusual B6th tuning like nobody else´s. The trick was that his pedal setup allowed him to get the "AB" changes as in E9th just the same. I,for instance, spent many hours trying to figure out "Christine´s Tune", but there was always something missing, so I eventually went for the more "standard" version by Al Perkins, which is also very pretty. BTW, I also recommend checking out Perkins (try to find "Last Of The Red Hot Burritos") if you want to hear some hot country-rock steel.
Pete´s style and sound are really unique. He´s certainly one of the most recognizable steel players anywhere.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 15 Aug 2001 7:55 am

Hey Brandon,
Don't let comments like these break your enthusiasm for these tunes!

"Every time I've heard a steel player try to fake that intro and solo, it sounds like shit compared to Jerry's recording."

"I hate when I hear a good steeler fake and butcher this tune."

Jam on these tunes to your hearts content!!!

Have a blast figuring out what all the pedals and levers do, and try to find someone local to give you a jump start lesson.

Jerry would've NEVER played it twice the same way himself. I don't know what "fake" means but I'm sure Jerry has "butchered" as many steel rides as any of us, in his day.
(Try listening to bootlegs of the takes that didn't make the American Beauty and Working Mans Dead alblums... ouch!)

"No time to Hate"
-Hunter/Garcia-

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 15 August 2001 at 08:56 AM.]

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 15 Aug 2001 8:58 am

Oh boy! Bad words by our own b0b on the forum.

I too believe it was the way Jerry played the notes and NOT the notes themselves that made Jerry such a pleasure to listen to. His tone and feeling is what I liked about his playing.

It's certainly not popular to remain stuck in the past...and it's not much better to want to start there.

Donny, are you serious? I agree it is not good to get stuck in the past (as many on here have done - flame me if you wish) but especially with our instrument it is a good idea, if not a requirement, to start with the past. I believe there are only a handfull of steel guitarists in the world that can say they did not learn from the masters of their past. I would venture to say, that almost all styles of playing (on any instrument) is just a conglomeration of other people's styles mixed and interpreted by the individual players into their own style.

Listen and learn from everyone, past and present.